View Full Version : SAS hit the shores of France today ! (I got mine)
Sent on Jan 2, arrived in Paris outskirts on Jan 7 midday, that's only 3 1/2 working days - it was so fast I didn't believe it at first, sometimes it takes longer to get a letter from the guy next door ! :D
Eagerly installing right now,thanks NWS !
Matto
01-07-2009, 08:27 PM
Grrrr .... :rolleyes:
Saffron
01-07-2009, 09:00 PM
SAS hit the shores of France today ! (I got mine)
Did it come via Normandy, I wonder?
old_pop2000
01-07-2009, 09:02 PM
Sent on Jan 2, arrived in Paris outskirts on Jan 7 midday, that's only 3 1/2 working days - it was so fast I didn't believe it at first, sometimes it takes longer to get a letter from the guy next door ! :D
Eagerly installing right now,thanks NWS !
LAFAYETTE!!!.... We are here!!:p
Ok, played my 1st "tutorial" campaign !
Everything played very well, the game interface is somewhat "rough on the edges" but amazingly functional.
1 big complaint/request : please please give us a "pause on event" option (for each event type that can be selected in options) so that you can see directly what are the results of the "big" battle events without having to put 2 sec delays that slows down too much the turn resolution.
Only other weird/buglike thing is that when I wanted to increase my tech spending I was unable to enter a figure, or rather to have it registered, as the values kept "auto erasing" in the data field, in the end I don't know what was really invested. I tried to come back to the screen but then the figures had changed...
Nitpicking : zoom in/out on the mouse wheel would be a nice addition.
As for my game, I've been crushed (with the US), right on turn 1, when my main fleet (Lady Lex, Alaska, 1 CA, 5DD) encountered ...the 5-subs Japanese fleet ! In 2 engagements over 1 day the damned sub thingies sunk *all* 3 big ships, with no losses to them ! :eek:
Did I stumble upon a super-long lance bug :p? In my books Japanese SS never managed stg even remotely comparable ! And my DDs where totally ineffective it seems. As there's no detailed sub battle replay, I'm left to wonder ... and really would prefer to have this detailed replay, when my main assets are sunk !
On my side I only managed to damage 1 jap CV by level bombers when they decided to raid... San Francisco , no less :rolleyes:!
Overall and despite my frustration, a very pleasing game experience, really in the shoes of the Grand Admiral ! The 2IC system is smart and immensely helpful (if WitP had it I would maybe play it...).
For the next attempt I'd try the Med or the Atlantic, less activity, less bases, less A/C, closer to my RL shores too ! :)
Anyway, thanks Tony and NWS, this game is very promising, and well done !
Christian Schwietzke
01-07-2009, 10:13 PM
As for my game, I've been crushed (with the US), right on turn 1, when my main fleet (Lady Lex, Alaska, 1 CA, 5DD) encountered ...the 5-subs Japanese fleet ! In 2 engagements over 1 day the damned sub thingies sunk *all* 3 big ships, with no losses to them ! :eek:
Did I stumble upon a super-long lance bug :p? In my books Japanese SS never managed stg even remotely comparable ! And my DDs where totally ineffective it seems. As there's no detailed sub battle replay, I'm left to wonder ... and really would prefer to have this detailed replay, when my main assets are sunk !
I think the difference is, in real life the IJN subs never operated in wolfpacks, and here they did. With as many subs as DDs, it is not really surprising that the DDs are not very effective.
DiFool6
01-08-2009, 02:11 AM
Only other weird/buglike thing is that when I wanted to increase my tech spending I was unable to enter a figure, or rather to have it registered, as the values kept "auto erasing" in the data field, in the end I don't know what was really invested. I tried to come back to the screen but then the figures had changed...
The game doesn't like the keypad-use the keyboard numerals instead. And beware, as each time you hit the commit button, the funds are spent instantly, and not triggered only once, when you hit the Go! button.
For the next attempt I'd try the Med or the Atlantic, less activity, less bases, less A/C, closer to my RL shores too ! :)Be careful with the Med scenario. Because everything is so crowded, you are going to have tons of activity all happening rapid fire. And beware the superaggressive AI-no Sitzkrieg for him!
I think the difference is, in real life the IJN subs never operated in wolfpacks, and here they did. With as many subs as DDs, it is not really surprising that the DDs are not very effective.
Maybe - that's an effect of the limited tonnage of the Tutorial campaign also, I didn't have many escorts.
But I would have expected that the CV planes spot the subs (it was during day iirc), then the DD would have intervened and the CV ran away.
Anyway CVs/BBs aren't slow merchants, it was pretty difficult (read impossible) for a 5 kn submerged sub to catch a 25+kn CV or BB, and IRL it didn't happen (only damaged slow CVs were sunk by subs).
There may have been some "chance" torp launches, but here my ships get consistently and repeatedly sunk, that doesn't seem right even with a wolfpack.
tony_glazebrook
01-08-2009, 10:12 AM
Maybe - that's an effect of the limited tonnage of the Tutorial campaign also, I didn't have many escorts.
But I would have expected that the CV planes spot the subs (it was during day iirc), then the DD would have intervened and the CV ran away.
Anyway CVs/BBs aren't slow merchants, it was pretty difficult (read impossible) for a 5 kn submerged sub to catch a 25+kn CV or BB, and IRL it didn't happen (only damaged slow CVs were sunk by subs).
There may have been some "chance" torp launches, but here my ships get consistently and repeatedly sunk, that doesn't seem right even with a wolfpack.
PDF - I'm certainly willing to review any game data you give me to check how the mechanics play out. I'm opening a thread on this question. But I can do much more with hard data. The thread will have instructions on how to send game data for evaluation. The AI is quite complex and of course takes things like surface fleet speeds into account; but there is always room for improvement/tweaking ;)
Sure, I understand you can't solve issues out of the blue ! ;)
I'll send the save as instructed. Note that I am prone to have misinterpreted things, or just be tricked by erroneous sightings, and that I can't neither check what the AI had in mind.
tony_glazebrook
01-08-2009, 10:45 AM
Sure, I understand you can't solve issues out of the blue ! ;)
I'll send the save as instructed. Note that I am prone to have misinterpreted things, or just be tricked by erroneous sightings, and that I can't neither check what the AI had in mind.
That's fine PDF, just send me your stuff when you are ready, but please have a look first at the new thread I created.
DiFool6
01-08-2009, 05:39 PM
Maybe - that's an effect of the limited tonnage of the Tutorial campaign also, I didn't have many escorts.
But I would have expected that the CV planes spot the subs (it was during day iirc), then the DD would have intervened and the CV ran away.
Anyway CVs/BBs aren't slow merchants, it was pretty difficult (read impossible) for a 5 kn submerged sub to catch a 25+kn CV or BB, and IRL it didn't happen (only damaged slow CVs were sunk by subs).
There may have been some "chance" torp launches, but here my ships get consistently and repeatedly sunk, that doesn't seem right even with a wolfpack.
That's not true, a number of escorted, fully healthy and relatively fast CVs got attacked and sunk by subs on all sides (Taiho, Wasp, Courageous, Ark Royal and several others). However what a sub doesn't have vs. a fast task force is persistence-the ability to have a running battle over many hours or even days (vs. a much slower merchant convoy yes). A sub gets its one shot, and either hits the target, or doesn't, and then either way is hounded as the rest of the task force gets away for good. And yes ASW planes patrolling the fringes of the TF should reduce (but not eliminate) the chance that the sub gets close enough in the first place, at least in clear daylight weather if not at night using centimetric airborne radar later in the war.
Christian Schwietzke
01-08-2009, 07:33 PM
That's not true, a number of escorted, fully healthy and relatively fast CVs got attacked and sunk by subs on all sides (Taiho, Wasp, Courageous, Ark Royal and several others).
...Shokaku, Shinano, Unryu...
Plus, IIRC, HMS Barham and more cruisers than you can shake a stick at.
You're right, maybe the shock of losing my fleet made me rewrite history...
It seemed a bit off that I could have several engagements with subs of the same TF, and that each time 1 hit= 1 kill (esp on the Alaska, it should have withstood a little more..).
Thinking at it again, I'll make a "testbed" campaign with 1CV+6DD and 5 SS on each side and make them battle out to see what happens consistently.
Maybe the "issue" is just that multi-SS TFs should not be possible ? Wolfpacks were just opportunistic hunter assemblies, noone fielded "real" SS TF in WW2 afaik (I mean ships moving and acting together for several days ...but maybe I'm wrong).
Scott Chisholm
01-08-2009, 08:44 PM
You're right, maybe the shock of losing my fleet made me rewrite history...
It seemed a bit off that I could have several engagements with subs of the same TF, and that each time 1 hit= 1 kill (esp on the Alaska, it should have withstood a little more..).
Thinking at it again, I'll make a "testbed" campaign with 1CV+6DD and 5 SS on each side and make them battle out to see what happens consistently.
Maybe the "issue" is just that multi-SS TFs should not be possible ? Wolfpacks were just opportunistic hunter assemblies, noone fielded "real" SS TF in WW2 afaik (I mean ships moving and acting together for several days ...but maybe I'm wrong).
PDF,
You can always modify the 2ICs fleets to make 1-sub fleets if you want to emulate historical operations. The 2IC is not trying to reenact history; instead, it is optimizing the use of available assets.
I know the submarine rules were tweaked at the end of Beta testing as submarines would get mowed down like stalks of wheat. I lost 20 US subs in the first month when playtesting the Pacific scenario - and didn't land a single torpedo on a Japanese ship!
Matto
01-08-2009, 09:17 PM
Still without the game ... hope on Friday will arrive
Scott,
Yes I can do that (single sub TFs), but can't enforce it for the AI...:(
DiFool6
01-09-2009, 01:26 AM
You're right, maybe the shock of losing my fleet made me rewrite history...
It seemed a bit off that I could have several engagements with subs of the same TF, and that each time 1 hit= 1 kill (esp on the Alaska, it should have withstood a little more..).
Alaskas had no anti-torpedo scheme to speak of. [I'll shut up now...:)]
Thinking at it again, I'll make a "testbed" campaign with 1CV+6DD and 5 SS on each side and make them battle out to see what happens consistently.
Maybe the "issue" is just that multi-SS TFs should not be possible ? Wolfpacks were just opportunistic hunter assemblies, noone fielded "real" SS TF in WW2 afaik (I mean ships moving and acting together for several days ...but maybe I'm wrong).There was a continuum kind of sort of, yes in a lot of cases it was just individual boats converging on a target, but even the Americans would often pair 2-3 subs together in a widely spread formation and go hunting.
Matto
01-09-2009, 06:21 PM
My copy still do not arrived :( It looks, I must wait until Monday ... it will be a long weekend :mad:
Christian Schwietzke
01-09-2009, 06:26 PM
My copy still do not arrived :( It looks, I must wait until Monday ... it will be a long weekend :mad:
Misery loves company, eh?
*pats Matto on the back*
FAdmiral
01-10-2009, 09:21 PM
I just got my e-mail confirmation on shipment today. Being that it says 3-7 week
days shipping time, I should receive it next week sometime.....
JIM
Warship NWS
01-11-2009, 01:58 AM
Quick news about last weeks orders and our forums,
http://forums.navalwarfare.org/showthread.php?t=887
Thanks.
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