What is good naval gunnery?

[Ed Rotondaro]

Hi:

In this age of computer guided weapons, we sort of take a one shot hit/kill for granted. Now let's go back to the days of the dreadnought and the battleship. What in those days constituted good shooting? What percentage of hits from salvoes fired could reasonably be expected to hit and cause damage? From all accounts of naval actions, even single hits could do a lot of damage if the shell was large enough. WCDB models splinter damage from neat misses. After visiting the USS Massachusetts this past summer, I was able to see first hand what a near miss could do to even a heavily armored ship. It doesn't take much imagination to comprehend what kind of damage could be inflicted on a smaller combat. There are accounts of near misses knocking out turrets or other sensitive equipment like radar. So let the discussion begin and let us get educated!

[Scott Chisholm]

Ed,

There are other people who can provide you better researched answers to your question, but I remember from my basic gunnery classes that "maximum effective range" for a gun was defined as that range at which you had a 2% chance of a hit....

When I was working on my Surface Warfare Officer Qualification the gunnery fire control techs told me that the 5"/54-Mk 86 combo was supposed to hit a frigate sized target on the third shot. I cannot confirm that, but I do know that while doing NGFS we could consistently drop rounds in the kill box with satisfying regularity.

Not sure if this helps....

[Kyle Holgate]

Ed,

There are other people who can provide you better researched answers to your question, but I remember from my basic gunnery classes that "maximum effective range" for a gun was defined as that range at which you had a 2% chance of a hit....

When I was working on my Surface Warfare Officer Qualification the gunnery fire control techs told me that the 5"/54-Mk 86 combo was supposed to hit a frigate sized target on the third shot. I cannot confirm that, but I do know that while doing NGFS we could consistently drop rounds in the kill box with satisfying regularity.

Not sure if this helps....

We used to do that with my ol' FF gun - don't remember the designation other than it was a 5" - 38cal I think.
I remember doing gunnery drills where we shot at a towed target and were regularly hitting it (well, not supposed to hit it, actually be a certain distance behind it IIRC).
Unfortunately I don't remember the range though it seems like 12,000 yards may be right and we hit it typically on 3-4 shots using radar, more if optical only.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Ed,

There are other people who can provide you better researched answers to your question, but I remember from my basic gunnery classes that "maximum effective range" for a gun was defined as that range at which you had a 2% chance of a hit....

When I was working on my Surface Warfare Officer Qualification the gunnery fire control techs told me that the 5"/54-Mk 86 combo was supposed to hit a frigate sized target on the third shot. I cannot confirm that, but I do know that while doing NGFS we could consistently drop rounds in the kill box with satisfying regularity.

Not sure if this helps....

Scott:

Thanks for the info!

[Ed Rotondaro]

We used to do that with my ol' FF gun - don't remember the designation other than it was a 5" - 38cal I think.
I remember doing gunnery drills where we shot at a towed target and were regularly hitting it (well, not supposed to hit it, actually be a certain distance behind it IIRC).
Unfortunately I don't remember the range though it seems like 12,000 yards may be right and we hit it typically on 3-4 shots using radar, more if optical only.

Kyle:

Were you on a FFG? If so, your gun should have been a 76"mm OTO Melara, not a 5"/38. I could be wrong here.

[Scott Chisholm]

Kyle:

Were you on a FFG? If so, your gun should have been a 76"mm OTO Melara, not a 5"/38. I could be wrong here.

Unless, of course, he served in an FFG-1 class.... :p

[Kyle Holgate]

Kyle:

Were you on a FFG? If so, your gun should have been a 76"mm OTO Melara, not a 5"/38. I could be wrong here.

FF, Knox class. Ed ol' buddy, I'd know the difference between the 76mm and 5". Sheesh! :rolleyes:

[Scott Chisholm]

FF, Knox class. Ed ol' buddy, I'd know the difference between the 76mm and 5". Sheesh! :rolleyes:

Kyle,

Yeah, but I'm surprised Ed did! :D

[old_pop2000]

From Elementary Naval Ordnance and Gunnery: Including Close-order Infantry By Hobart Cole Ramsey-
The aim of all Naval Gunnery is to score the greatest possible number of hits on an enemy ship or on a target, in the shortest possible time and under various and changing conditions. It is also of prime importance that the enemy ships be hit as early in the engagement as possible. Dated 1918

[Ed Rotondaro]

FF, Knox class. Ed ol' buddy, I'd know the difference between the 76mm and 5". Sheesh! :rolleyes:

Kyle:

Heh Heh! Realized that after I posted. Should'a known better! I apologize for my pride going before the fall.:o

[Ed Rotondaro]

Kyle,

Yeah, but I'm surprised Ed did! :D

Scott:

Don't understimate me boy, Chris' tests all of us on a regular basis to see that our knowledge is still up to date. Sort of like steriod testing.

[George LeSauvage]

One surprising #: in the new book, Friedman gives the approx hit rates at Jutland, of about 2.5 (RN) & 2.3 (KM). That's for only BB/BC vs BB/BC MG fire; excluding all smaller guns, & hits on Wiesbaden & the Brit AC's.

George

[old_pop2000]

One surprising #: in the new book, Friedman gives the approx hit rates at Jutland, of about 2.5 (RN) & 2.3 (KM). That's for only BB/BC vs BB/BC MG fire; excluding all smaller guns, & hits on Wiesbaden & the Brit AC's.

George
John Campbell goes into great detail about rounds expended by each ship, and hits achieved on which ships. Makes for a good study of naval gunnery.