Ship animation, battles, sound effects

[FrontierCybrarian]

Chris or NWS, I know you fellows are busy with the forum and selling all types of games during this holiday season but if you get a chance here is a post I placed elsewhere that has me wondering. I tried entering your NWS forum but I still haven't been cleared to participate there so here goes...


"I'm certainly not a hardcore wargamer on anything or anywhere. But the versatility of letting your Admiral friend do much of the hard work on this is a big plus for me. This way SaS could appeal to novice,intermediate, and hardcore gamers alike.

Now, my only reservation is if the game is virtually just text based, charts, and a few retro photographs or are there at least some battle representations with good (doesn't have to be great) weaponry sound and explosions and visualization of ship to ship combat (albeit at a distance)?

I know this is not the most important aspect but it does help draw one into the intensity, drama, and heat of the battle. Try turning off the sound of your tv and use closed captioning while watching a movie, the news, or program. Not the same impact, right?

Stimuate my six senses Admiral BRUCE WILLIS; sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, and spirits. At least give us sight and sound and touch (through keyboard/mouse control). Jarhead will donate the explosive gunpowder and matches to cover the taste and smell and when we blow ourselves to Hell or Heaven we will experience the spirit part.

Just kidding on the latter, but could Chris or someone from NWS comment on the ship battle visuals and animation and the music, weapon, and ambient sound. There is no question about the detail, history, statistics, comprehension...that appears to all be there.

I guess statistical baseball games have worn me out a bit. Quite tired of just seeing dry box scores and charts and averages. Want a bit of atmosphere. Not high, glitzy stuff and special effects...there's too much of that without much story, depth or character. But just the right amount of sweet spotting.

Know what I mean Captain Nemo? "

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/app_themes/Classic/image/totop.gif (javascript:void(scrollTo(0,0));)

[tony_glazebrook]

Chris or NWS, I know you fellows are busy with the forum and selling all types of games during this holiday season but if you get a chance here is a post I placed elsewhere that has me wondering. I tried entering your NWS forum but I still haven't been cleared to participate there so here goes...


"I'm certainly not a hardcore wargamer on anything or anywhere. But the versatility of letting your Admiral friend do much of the hard work on this is a big plus for me. This way SaS could appeal to novice,intermediate, and hardcore gamers alike.

Now, my only reservation is if the game is virtually just text based, charts, and a few retro photographs or are there at least some battle representations with good (doesn't have to be great) weaponry sound and explosions and visualization of ship to ship combat (albeit at a distance)?

I know this is not the most important aspect but it does help draw one into the intensity, drama, and heat of the battle. Try turning off the sound of your tv and use closed captioning while watching a movie, the news, or program. Not the same impact, right?

Stimuate my six senses Admiral BRUCE WILLIS; sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, and spirits. At least give us sight and sound and touch (through keyboard/mouse control). Jarhead will donate the explosive gunpowder and matches to cover the taste and smell and when we blow ourselves to Hell or Heaven we will experience the spirit part.

Just kidding on the latter, but could Chris or someone from NWS comment on the ship battle visuals and animation and the music, weapon, and ambient sound. There is no question about the detail, history, statistics, comprehension...that appears to all be there.

I guess statistical baseball games have worn me out a bit. Quite tired of just seeing dry box scores and charts and averages. Want a bit of atmosphere. Not high, glitzy stuff and special effects...there's too much of that without much story, depth or character. But just the right amount of sweet spotting.

Know what I mean Captain Nemo? "

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/app_themes/Classic/image/totop.gif (javascript:void(scrollTo(0,0));)


SAS has a 2D visual representation of action in three main ways:
1. you see hour by hour movement of fleets and event messages of all kinds on the map as you run (or replay) the turn. The map is fully zoomable and draggable. Fleets are represented by profiles of the fleet flagship.

2. surface battles - for every battle you get:
a. a summary screen with, among other things graphic representations of current damage to ships at the end of the battle
b. full action replays where you can replay the whole battle in a 2D view. Ships are shown by profile and the view has a scaler to indicate approx range. Each shell or torpedo hit is shown, with at that point the exact range between firer and target, along with splashes and text descriptions of the damage. You can see the damage inidctaors for the ships change during the battle, as well as the targeting and other orders for every ship. The visuals are enough to show you exactly waht happened during the battle, and why. They are not meant to be super duper eye candy though.

3. aerial and sub battles - you get the summary view (but not the battle replay)

Sounds are a tricky one. SAS has theme music that you can enable or disable but ambient and battle sounds are NOT in the game. This is not due to laziness, but to a deliberate design decision. The reason is because SAS has SO much action happening simultaneously (or in very quick succession) that the sounds would just end up as a big jumble, all overlaying each other. To take an example - in just one hour of turn calculation, there might be many events happening across the whole map - some minleaying, a surface battle, perhaps an aerial or sub battle also, cargo loading or unloading, new enemy sightings, etc. There are over 30 different event types that are reported. You can filter out the ones you are not interested in but even so, SAS truly allows you to get a big picture window into action as it really is happening. This is a bit dfifferent from some other games out there which have a different (and slower) way of showing events - typically, everything is serialised - you see an aerial battle, then maybe text of a bombardment etc. Everything is serialised. Doing things this way was not an option for SAS because in one turn you might be calculating up to a month's worth of action, not a day or 2.

The immersion in SAS comes from the accuracy of the modelling and the way that action is shown hour by hour, plus the ability to replay it at your leisure (another nice little feature - you never miss anything as it can all be replayed). Also, you can speed up or slow down the calculation or even do it one hour at a time, and, as messages appear, you can link directly to battle reports and replays and see it all right then and there if you want.

This way, SAS allows for a huge amount of action to be calculated but you are always in control of how fast it happens and what you see.

The ability to see fleet movement hour by hour, and enemy fleet sightings also, is also a big way of feeling involved in what is happening.

I hope this answers your question

[Saffron]

full action replays where you can replay the whole battle in a 2D view.

Will there be a setting to allow battles to be seen in real time? In other words, as they happen, not a "replay" ... therefore watching the battle is more suspenseful when one doesn't know the outcome. It's a little like watching a taped sporting event when you already know the score.

[tony_glazebrook]

Will there be a setting to allow battles to be seen in real time? In other words, as they happen, not a "replay" ... therefore watching the battle is more suspenseful when one doesn't know the outcome. It's a little like watching a taped sporting event when you already know the score.

Safron - In both the turn calculation and the replay screens - when a surface battle starts, you get a message telling you it has started and showing its location on the map; and when it has finished (which might be 1, 2 or a number of hours later) you get another report. When you click on the report you get the summary screen. From the summary screen you can get to the battle replay with just one more click. The replay is paused at the start of the battle. If you did not read the summary screen, when you get to the replay, you will not know what has happened and so running through the replay would be as you describe, ie, you would be watching the battle as it unfolds without knowing the result.

You can also get to the battle summary and replay screens from the briefing report you get at the start of each new turn. Again, if you don't read the summary first, then the replay will be like watching it with all the suspense of not knowing how it turned out.

[tony_glazebrook]

Re the Immersion aspect, I forgot to mention one very important additional 'hook': as the action is being calculated hour by hour you have the option of intervening and making your own tactical responses to events - changing fleet responses (eg from say avoid to intecept a nominated enemy fleet) and/or changing or aborting air strikes from nominated land-bvased airfields and carriers. With strikes, you can change the number and type of aircraft, the bombloads and the bomb height. I believe that this degree of hour-by-hour tactical decision making is the icing on the cake. You make real command operational decisions at the planning stage, thinking weeks ahead, but then you can - if you want - make these hourlytactical responses also.

[Saffron]

Thanks, Tony. I'll just have to resist reading the summary too soon. ;)

[FrontierCybrarian]

Tony,

You are very thorough and caring in your replies. Thank you. I can see where sound effects for this type of game wouldn't be functional or actually needed. The immersion comes with the interaction and involvement in the decisions and choices.

I understand the game much better now. Appreciate all. keep up the good work.

[Warship NWS]

To FC, thank you for the support and we do look forward to all players constructive feedback regarding v1.0 and will certainly be taking notes for the first v1.1 upgrade.

Thank you for joining our forums.

Thanks.

[tony_glazebrook]

Tony,

You are very thorough and caring in your replies. Thank you. I can see where sound effects for this type of game wouldn't be functional or actually needed. The immersion comes with the interaction and involvement in the decisions and choices.

I understand the game much better now. Appreciate all. keep up the good work.

Thanks FC. It's never a problem replying - I always enjoy it when cutomers show they are interested. ;)

[tony_glazebrook]

Thanks, Tony. I'll just have to resist reading the summary too soon. ;)

Good luck with yiour battles Saffron - I have a feeling you will be an early candidate for designing some original ships, and then waiting expectantly to see if your 120000 ton monster does what it's supposed to :D

[Saffron]

I have a feeling you will be an early candidate for designing some original ships, and then waiting expectantly to see if your 120000 ton monster does what it's supposed to

You have me pegged to a T ... I'm looking forward to this. I haven't played a strategic level game on WWII since the old PTO II game by Koei.

[DiFool6]

When they get NAW working as the optional tactical battle simulator, we'll likely get more eye and ear candy. The default map is attractive enough for me.

[Christian Schwietzke]

Good luck with yiour battles Saffron - I have a feeling you will be an early candidate for designing some original ships, and then waiting expectantly to see if your 120000 ton monster does what it's supposed to :D

You mean, design a 120,000 ton monster, wait for it to be built, and then gape in utter horror as my fleet of 30,000 ton ships, which were finished much faster, reduce your home port, including the unfinished monster, to rubble. :p

Really, who needs a 120,000 ton battleship? To paraphrase Shrek, "Do you think he might be compensating for something?" :D

[Matto]

I think that graphical part of game is important for good feeling about situation and battles ... on the other side, looks on 2D easy graphics of War in the Pacific (Matrixgames) ... and it is still popular and well played game !

[pad152]

If there is a battle replay, why can't you just watch the battle when it happens?

[tony_glazebrook]

If there is a battle replay, why can't you just watch the battle when it happens?


SAS is primarily a strategc and operational simulator, across a whole theatre; there may be several battles happening at any one time simultaneously. The AI needs to handle things in parallel. Also, stopping to watch a battle as it happened would interrupt the flow of the calculation. The way we have done it, players can complete a turn's calculation in a few minutes, even for very complex scenarios. Then they can review things at their leisure - as much or as little as they want.

[Warship NWS]

If there is a battle replay, why can't you just watch the battle when it happens?

Note this also.. you can scale the campaign to cover from hours to months. If you want to make sure you catch everything going on during major naval campaigns that could involve several critical engagements you can slow down the time slices per game turn so as to keep better track of the overall operations and thus make snap decisions based on the outcomes of various engagements. The cool part about this feature is that you can speed past the boring stuff (like watching ships be built) and slow down for the fun stuff.. (watching things get blown up)..;)