A cabinent question

[Ed Rotondaro]

Hi:

This thread is slightly political in that it asks a question about government, but I am avoiding any party politics here. The new president elect is building his team of advisors and hopefully cabinent members. Somewhere in the distant past I had read that a military officer was not eligible to be Secretary of Defense, either by tradition or actual law. Does anyone know if this is true? I ask only because I think former General Colin Powell would make an excellent Secretary of Defense. Although my fear is his last experience in a cabinent post may convince that he no longers wants to serve his country. Hopefully the forum moderator will let this thread go thru, I'm not espousing any politics here, juts wondering about whether a great public servant could once again answer his country's call to duty.

[Campy]

Casper Weinberger was an army captain.

Frank

[Spook046]

An active-duty member of the military cannot serve in a cabinet (secretary-level) post. Intentionally, such as for Secretary of Defense, this must be filled by a civilian.

But Powell, as a retired serviceman, is certainly eligible for any cabinet posting, as he was once earlier Bush's Secretary of State.

[keschofield]

Casper Weinberger was an army captain.

Frank

True, but I don't think he was active military when he served in the cabinet.

[Campy]

True, but I don't think he was active military when he served in the cabinet

He was not, but neither is Powell. That was my point.

Frank

[old_pop2000]

An active-duty member of the military cannot serve in a cabinet (secretary-level) post. Intentionally, such as for Secretary of Defense, this must be filled by a civilian.

But Powell, as a retired serviceman, is certainly eligible for any cabinet posting, as he was once earlier Bush's Secretary of State.

Where in the U.S.C. does it state that a cabinet member can't be active duty military? He can't be a relative or a sitting member of Congress. Only Article Two of the Constitution mentions anything about extra advisors to the president but does not define who or what their names and responsibilities are. In fact, there is no overt reference to "the cabinet" in the USC or the Code of Federal Regulations that I could find.




§ 301.
General authorization to delegate functions; publication of delegations

The President of the United States is authorized to designate and empower the head of any department or agency in the executive branch, or any official thereof who is required to be appointed by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to perform without approval, ratification, or other action by the President
(1) any function which is vested in the President by law, or
(2) any function which such officer is required or authorized by law to perform only with or subject to the approval, ratification, or other action of the President: Provided, That nothing contained herein shall relieve the President of his responsibility in office for the acts of any such head or other official designated by him to perform such functions. Such designation and authorization shall be in writing, shall be published in the Federal Register, shall be subject to such terms, conditions, and limitations as the President may deem advisable, and shall be revocable at any time by the President in whole or in part.

[john964]

An active-duty member of the military cannot serve in a cabinet (secretary-level) post. Intentionally, such as for Secretary of Defense, this must be filled by a civilian.

But Powell, as a retired serviceman, is certainly eligible for any cabinet posting, as he was once earlier Bush's Secretary of State.A resevest can IIRC one of the SECNAV's under Reagan was a Navy resevest, and IIRC he did his resevest time just like any other reservest.

[Ed Rotondaro]

A resevest can IIRC one of the SECNAV's under Reagan was a Navy resevest, and IIRC he did his resevest time just like any other reservest.

John:

Thanks, I just rememberd that! Good post.

[Ed Rotondaro]

An active-duty member of the military cannot serve in a cabinet (secretary-level) post. Intentionally, such as for Secretary of Defense, this must be filled by a civilian.

But Powell, as a retired serviceman, is certainly eligible for any cabinet posting, as he was once earlier Bush's Secretary of State.

Ed, Kurt, John, et al:

Thanks for clarifying this. Well done all.

[Jittery]

Didn't he serve with the Elder Bush as NSA or a Defense adviser whilst still in the Army?? I remember reading somewhere that he stayed in the army while serving as a adviser then joined the Army again afterward??

If im grossly mistaken i apologize.

[Spook046]

Where in the U.S.C. does it state that a cabinet member can't be active duty military? He can't be a relative or a sitting member of Congress. Only Article Two of the Constitution mentions anything about extra advisors to the president but does not define who or what their names and responsibilities are. In fact, there is no overt reference to "the cabinet" in the USC or the Code of Federal Regulations that I could find.

Fair question. The following link:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Cabinet-of-the-United-States

...also correlates that a President's Cabinet has no official definition in the USC or CoFR.

The fundamental tripwire -- IMO -- is if an active-duty service member were to be placed as a Cabinet member, then would he or she still abide to the US military chain of command?

If yes, then could not a potential situation arise that might put his department's position (if other than Defense) in conflict with policy from the Pentagon and the SoD? Would then his link to the command chain take precedence over his and his department's own positions? Or stated otherwise, could his department be "trumped" by Defense?

If instead not having to abide to the chain of command, then why would the noted person still be regarded as active-duty?

While not codified in the USC or CoFR, the above example poses the "conflict of interest" premise that might arise if an active-duty service member takes lead of one of the Executive departments while still remaining as active-duty.

So we could just as well amend the "cannot" to "traditionally not done nor advisable", for what it's worth. All the same, I really just don't see the appointment of an active four-star to Secretary of Commerce, while still being active, as being in the cards.

Now --- further down the food chain --- it has varied with time. In past tradition, the commander of one of the Air Force Research Lab directorates (I'm in Propulsion) was a full colonel. Now the director's position is typically a civilian's, with a colonel as deputy director. That's not so much a matter of code in either case rather than the present discretion further up the command chain, be it AFRL or AF Materiel Command or even from the SecAF.

[old_pop2000]

....

If instead not having to abide to the chain of command, then why would the noted person still be regarded as active-duty?

While not codified in the USC or CoFR, the above example poses the "conflict of interest" premise that might arise if an active-duty service member takes lead of one of the Executive departments while still remaining as active-duty.

So we could just as well amend the "cannot" to "traditionally not done nor advisable", for what it's worth. All the same, I really just don't see the appointment of an active four-star to Secretary of Commerce, while still being active, as being in the cards.




Have you ever heard of "detached service"- Service away from you assigned unit. Each unit records those officers and enlisted that are on detached service. No reason a serving, line officer can't be on detached service and serve the president. Maybe the Commander can shed some light on this.

[john964]

Didn't he serve with the Elder Bush as NSA or a Defense adviser whilst still in the Army?? I remember reading somewhere that he stayed in the army while serving as a adviser then joined the Army again afterward??

If im grossly mistaken i apologize.Powell served under Bush 41 as deputy NatSecAdv and he also worked for the NSA as a asst director. This dose not conflict with him being active military as the NSA is technecly a military agency and NatSecAdv has had several military personel hold it. IIRC ADM William Casey and ADM Charles Poindexter(?) have held the position.

[Spook046]

Have you ever heard of "detached service"- Service away from you assigned unit. Each unit records those officers and enlisted that are on detached service. No reason a serving, line officer can't be on detached service and serve the president. Maybe the Commander can shed some light on this.

I believe, yes, an active-duty service member can serve "detached" in the role of advisor or some other role, even answering directly to the President. Was not Oliver North one of the more famous (or infamous?) in this capacity in the 1980's?

But can an active-duty member, remaining "active" (detached), also serve as the head (secretary) of one other of the executive departments? It might ultimately depend on what is meant by "active" or "detached" here, but the issue remains that appointing an active member to head an executive department other than Defense risks the appearance of conflict of interest.

What gets beat into our heads in the Fed "fishbowl" for integrity training is not only to avoid a conflict of interest, but also the appearance of same.

So to repeat, it depends what's meant by "active" and "detached"; I mean active by a uniformed active-duty member who remains part of the chain of command. And what I've meant all along is someone exactly that should not expect to ever simultaneously be a department head.

I didn't mean for that to be confusing, sorry if it seemed so.