US Carrier to India

[old_pop2000]

Here is something interesting. Apparently the Russians and Indian's are arguing over the cost and timeliness of the rework and repair of the Admiral Gorshkov Aircraft Carrier. So, the US is going to offer them the soon to be decommissioned Kitty Hawk.

http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0208/news/news_260208_indian_carrier.htm


Here are some other non-naval articles for you;

http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0208/news/news_260208_su35.htm

http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0208/news_0208.htm#warrior

[Kyle Holgate]

Is that gonna piss the Russians off or what! Heh heh heh.

[Citadelvette]

I think this would be a poor move on our part, bets to keep our gals to ourselves.

[Scott Chisholm]

I think this would be a poor move on our part, bets to keep our gals to ourselves.

Wow.

This is a surprise to me. I'm somewhat dumbstruck that we'd consider selling KITTY HAWK of all carriers. The NIMITZ CVNs are a modification of the KITTY HAWK; if you can find your way around KITTY HAWK, you wouldn't have much problem getting around NIMITZ.

The Foreign Military Sale (FMS) of a ship includes all tech pubs and - more importantly, to me - all Damage Control plates. Selling the LHA 1 DC Plates to the Soviets was one of the things that got John Walker locked up for the rest of his life.

Of course, JFK and AMERICA are a bit closer to the NIMITZ than KITTY HAWK, so maybe it's not so bad...

Uh huh.

[Kyle Holgate]

Wow.

This is a surprise to me. I'm somewhat dumbstruck that we'd consider selling KITTY HAWK of all carriers. The NIMITZ CVNs are a modification of the KITTY HAWK; if you can find your way around KITTY HAWK, you wouldn't have much problem getting around NIMITZ.

The Foreign Military Sale (FMS) of a ship includes all tech pubs and - more importantly, to me - all Damage Control plates. Selling the LHA 1 DC Plates to the Soviets was one of the things that got John Walker locked up for the rest of his life.

Of course, JFK and AMERICA are a bit closer to the NIMITZ than KITTY HAWK, so maybe it's not so bad...

Uh huh.

But India is our friend! (this month).:rolleyes:

[paladin5]

Personally i don't see a problems with selling the Kitty Hawk to India, however i can't say that I am thrilled about selling them super hornets. I think that at best we should sell them an older version of the hornet.

[paladin5]

Wow.

This is a surprise to me. I'm somewhat dumbstruck that we'd consider selling KITTY HAWK of all carriers. The NIMITZ CVNs are a modification of the KITTY HAWK; if you can find your way around KITTY HAWK, you wouldn't have much problem getting around NIMITZ.

The Foreign Military Sale (FMS) of a ship includes all tech pubs and - more importantly, to me - all Damage Control plates. Selling the LHA 1 DC Plates to the Soviets was one of the things that got John Walker locked up for the rest of his life.

Of course, JFK and AMERICA are a bit closer to the NIMITZ than KITTY HAWK, so maybe it's not so bad...

Uh huh.


What axactly are damage control plates?

[john964]

What axactly are damage control plates?
DC plates are drawings of the ship with all the DC fitting shown. They may not be arcatectureal drawings but they will show the basic layout of the ship possibly showing its weak points and were various compartments are located ie CIC Radio and Crypto.

[Scott Chisholm]

What axactly are damage control plates?

Michael,

Sorry about that; I sometimes forget to explain myself.

Damage Control (DC) Plates are full color poster-sized isometric drawings of the internal layout of the ship, showing all major damage control-related systems (all of which have their own color) and their components. I mean everything. Air systems, water systems, firemain system, ventilation systems, emergency electrical connections, water tight doors and hatches, emergency communications. Every space, tank and void is represented.

Other plates have all of the stability information for the ship, i.e., how much weight is added to the ship if a space if flooded.

We use them when combatting casualties so we can isolate flooding, contain fires, etc. From them, you can reverse engineer the physical layout of the ship, and identify any weakness/vulnerabilities.

They are a Big Deal, which is why John Walker will die in prison.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Michael,


They are a Big Deal, which is why John Walker will die in prison.

Scott:

He should be used for testing the effects of improved rounds for small arms, the effing traitor!

[Scott Chisholm]

Scott:

He should be used for testing the effects of improved rounds for small arms, the effing traitor!

Ed,

His son, Mike Walker, was arrested and removed from USS NIMITZ (CVN 68) shortly before I arrived in that ship. Talk about making security a living hell....

John Walker's wife repeatedly called the FBI and reported him, but she was blown off on all but the last time. Seems that she had to find courage in a bottle before she'd make the call, and the FBI figured she was just a drunk and pissed off housewife....

[john964]

Ed,

His son, Mike Walker, was arrested and removed from USS NIMITZ (CVN 68) shortly before I arrived in that ship. Talk about making security a living hell....

John Walker's wife repeatedly called the FBI and reported him, but she was blown off on all but the last time. Seems that she had to find courage in a bottle before she'd make the call, and the FBI figured she was just a drunk and pissed off housewife....

I remember reading that Mike had a box full of documents and had only been paid somthing like $1800 when he got busted. IIRC he got 20 years in a plea deal with his father.

[paladin5]

Michael,

Sorry about that; I sometimes forget to explain myself.

Damage Control (DC) Plates are full color poster-sized isometric drawings of the internal layout of the ship, showing all major damage control-related systems (all of which have their own color) and their components. I mean everything. Air systems, water systems, firemain system, ventilation systems, emergency electrical connections, water tight doors and hatches, emergency communications. Every space, tank and void is represented.

Other plates have all of the stability information for the ship, i.e., how much weight is added to the ship if a space if flooded.

We use them when combatting casualties so we can isolate flooding, contain fires, etc. From them, you can reverse engineer the physical layout of the ship, and identify any weakness/vulnerabilities.

They are a Big Deal, which is why John Walker will die in prison.


Ah those are most assuredly something you don't want getting out then

[Ed Rotondaro]

Ed,

His son, Mike Walker, was arrested and removed from USS NIMITZ (CVN 68) shortly before I arrived in that ship. Talk about making security a living hell....

John Walker's wife repeatedly called the FBI and reported him, but she was blown off on all but the last time. Seems that she had to find courage in a bottle before she'd make the call, and the FBI figured she was just a drunk and pissed off housewife....

Scott:

I wonder how much damage those two bastards did to US security in general and the Navy in particular. And they did it for money! I can understand ideology, but to sell out your country for money is just too degrading. It's a good thing the Soviet Union collapsed before they could fully exploit the secrets they got. We hope.

[old_pop2000]

Scott:

I wonder how much damage those two bastards did to US security in general and the Navy in particular. And they did it for money! I can understand ideology, but to sell out your country for money is just too degrading. It's a good thing the Soviet Union collapsed before they could fully exploit the secrets they got. We hope.
Why would you be surprised, Benedict Arnold sold the plans to West Point for a lot less during the Revolutionary War. My question is; How did he escape detection by the Navy and other agencies for as long as he did? That's probably why he is still alive?

[Ed Rotondaro]

Why would you be surprised, Benedict Arnold sold the plans to West Point for a lot less during the Revolutionary War. My question is; How did he escape detection by the Navy and other agencies for as long as he did? That's probably why he is still alive?

Dennis:

There was plenty of embarrassment to go around over that scandal. Who dropped the ball? CIA, FBI, USN, NSA? The US has never been as good at old fashioned espionage as the Russians have.

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

There was plenty of embarrassment to go around over that scandal. Who dropped the ball? CIA, FBI, USN, NSA? The US has never been as good at old fashioned espionage as the Russians have.
That is true, intrigue has never been the US's strong suit. That's probably a plus in our favor, IMO.

[Ed Rotondaro]

That is true, intrigue has never been the US's strong suit. That's probably a plus in our favor, IMO.

Dennis:

One can only hope. Maybe a functional democracy (what we used to have), either expects more from other nations, or is not jaded enough to do the sort of things required of a modern nation state. So we continue to slide under.:(

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

One can only hope. Maybe a functional democracy (what we used to have), either expects more from other nations, or is not jaded enough to do the sort of things required of a modern nation state. So we continue to slide under.:(
I am a firm believer in rising above your opponents and not rolling around in the mud with them. Our representative democracy seems to work fine and we haven't really lost any wars, not even Viet Nam. So, let's just keep our eye on the ball.

[Warship NWS]

Let's take care not to get too political with this topic.

[Scott Chisholm]

Why would you be surprised, Benedict Arnold sold the plans to West Point for a lot less during the Revolutionary War. My question is; How did he escape detection by the Navy and other agencies for as long as he did? That's probably why he is still alive?

Dennis,

To be honest, most of us don't really think that someone wearing the uniform would sell us out. In a word, we are too trusting.

By all accounts, both Walkers were stand up guys - sort of like Kevin Costner's character in that movie (No Way Out, perhaps?)

[old_pop2000]

Dennis,

To be honest, most of us don't really think that someone wearing the uniform would sell us out. In a word, we are too trusting.

By all accounts, both Walkers were stand up guys - sort of like Kevin Costner's character in that movie (No Way Out, perhaps?)
It goes with the territory, doesn't it? How can a ship and its crew perform as a team, if it can't trust the buddy next to them. I would expect that Walker and his son were good sailors who performed their jobs well, how else could they get near good, marketable information.

The question is simple. With 20/20 hindsight, were there signs that he was doing something wrong. Was he driving an expensive car for a chief? Did he live a lavish lifestyle and did anyone notice it? People are driven by the need for money. He would have manifested that desire somehow? That would have been the first red flag for a good investigator.

[JMS]

Dennis:

There was plenty of embarrassment to go around over that scandal. Who dropped the ball? CIA, FBI, USN, NSA? The US has never been as good at old fashioned espionage as the Russians have.

Sorry but that's incorrect because successful spies will be kept out of the public eye. US agents that springs to mind include Oleg Penkovsky, who passed critical information regarding the state of the Soviet ICBM program or Adolf Tolkachev, chief designer of Phazotron, who passed information regarding the radars installed in fighters like the MiG-29 or the Su-27, as well as future developments.

Defectors also provided significant information, to include Golitsin, Gouzenko, etc. which damaged KGB/GRU infiltration of Western agencies.

Of course, the record of Stasi spy Markus Wolf is difficult to match, but he was playing on home territory after all.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Dennis,

To be honest, most of us don't really think that someone wearing the uniform would sell us out. In a word, we are too trusting.

By all accounts, both Walkers were stand up guys - sort of like Kevin Costner's character in that movie (No Way Out, perhaps?)

Scott:

That was a great film, back when Costner either had better judgement when choosing scripts, or was sent better scripts. The ending completely caught me by surprise which is what made it so much fun.

You know what it probably came down to. Ordinary life getting too expensive. The Walkers saw a way to make some money and let greed trump their basic common sense. In a somewhat related story, when I was courting my wife, we both played golf in a league together. One the really good golfers was a archivist for the state of NY and one of my favorite people to golf with. We would talk history, books, sports etc. while playing. Just recently he was arrested for selling priceless historical documents on ****. He completely fessed up and accepted the blame. He lost a good job and will be doing some jail time. The sad thing is, he's a good person who did something stupid. Sadly when he explained his reasons they were twofold: Credit card debt and then he got used to having extra money for home renovations, vacations, etc. That's what made his crime seem so sleazy. To say I was depressed is an understatement.:(

[Ed Rotondaro]

Sorry but that's incorrect because successful spies will be kept out of the public eye. US agents that springs to mind include Oleg Penkovsky, who passed critical information regarding the state of the Soviet ICBM program or Adolf Tolkachev, chief designer of Phazotron, who passed information regarding the radars installed in fighters like the MiG-29 or the Su-27, as well as future developments.

Defectors also provided significant information, to include Golitsin, Gouzenko, etc. which damaged KGB/GRU infiltration of Western agencies.

Of course, the record of Stasi spy Markus Wolf is difficult to match, but he was playing on home territory after all.

JMS:

Perhaps because we live in a represenative democracy, we tend to trumpet our scandals and failures openly while keeping our successes hidden. Still it is the opinion of most writers on matters of intelligence, that the Russians were the masters of good human intel. The US certainly were the best at signals intel and eavesdropping and even code breaking, but for recruiting agents on the ground, we never came close to the KGB's track record. We mainly have a different mindset that prevents us from developing agents and sources for human intel. Great Britain is probably the only Western nation that is about equal to the old KGB when it comes to human intel. At least that's my opinion flawed as it may be.:o