Coastal hexes

[HBuhring]

Another question (I know, I'm an annoying detail buff...). Will detection and combat in coastal hexes be affected by proximity of the land? I mean: increased possibilty of detection by spotters on the coast, shallow waters not allowing for optimal sub operations, coastal defences, decreased maneuvering possibilities, hiding behind natural obstacles, are factors that make a battle (or even just a transfer) in coastal waters much different from one in high seas.
It's obvious that a strategic sim like SAS will not represent all these elements in detail: but there will be some sort of difference between sailing (and battling) in the Strait of Giblraltar and in the middle of nowhere?

Cheers

HB

[tony_glazebrook]

Another question (I know, I'm an annoying detail buff...). Will detection and combat in coastal hexes be affected by proximity of the land? I mean: increased possibilty of detection by spotters on the coast, shallow waters not allowing for optimal sub operations, coastal defences, decreased maneuvering possibilities, hiding behind natural obstacles, are factors that make a battle (or even just a transfer) in coastal waters much different from one in high seas.
It's obvious that a strategic sim like SAS will not represent all these elements in detail: but there will be some sort of difference between sailing (and battling) in the Strait of Giblraltar and in the middle of nowhere?

Cheers

HB

HB - Sailing in coastal waters can put you in spotting range of coaswatchers. And you have to be in coastal waters to do shore bombardments or amphibious assaults or be fired on by shore bateries; but I do not model differences in water depths.

Cheers

[HBuhring]

I would suggest at least two things that should be included:
1. If engagement distances are calculated in any way before a combat takes place (like it is in WCDB), combats in coastal hexes should always start quite at short range (8000 yds at most?), to simulate the constraints of coast lines;
2. there should be a modifier against submarines operating in coastal hexes;
[3. (ok, I said two, but this came up late...) Minefields should be more effective and minesweeping more difficult than in open seas]

Cheers

HB

[Scott Chisholm]

Minefields should be more effective and minesweeping more difficult than in open seas

HB,

Just curious, why do you believe this to be so? It appears counter-intuitive.

In reality (and for that matter, in the game) mines are deployed in two ways: offensively and defensively. In either case, they are sea denial weapons and are most effective in denying access to straits and harbors.

To effectively mine the "open seas", one would have to literally lay thousands of mines, as with the mine barrage of WW1. Very expensive and time consuming.

Mechanically sweeping moored contact mines (which were the majority of mines used in WW2) is performed in the same manner regardless of the ocean depth as the mines themselves will be 10-20 feet beneath the surface. The truly difficult mines to sweep are bottom influence mines and very deep water anti-submarine mines, neither of which really played a huge factor in WW2.

I'm not trying to squash your suggestion; I'm just trying to understand your reasoning to see if I'm missing something. :D

[HBuhring]

On the first point we totally agree: minefields should be *more effective* in coastal hexes (you can block the access to restricted waters more easily than to open seas).
On the second point, my reasoning was somewhat incomplete due to brevity -- let me correct it. I believe that minesweeping efforts should be in fact *easier* for the player controlling the coast (due to vicinity of infrastructures, better detection possibilities, and resources that may abstractly factored into the sim, [e.g. engineers, local minesweeping units assigned to harbours, etc.]; on the contrary it should be more difficult for the player not controlling the coast (imagine entering the Strait of Gibraltar with a flotilla of minesweepers, let alone having them sail with the fleet from, say, La Spezia...).

Hope this helps.

Cheers

HB

P. S. As for mine barrages, WWII has some important examples, notably the one along the Eastern coast of Britain as an ASW barrier -- and the extensive mining of the Sicilian Channel by both the Italian and the British Navy