Even more questions

[Christian Schwietzke]

So now I have some questions of my own. I would appreciate answers, but I do not expect anyone to get distracted by answering my questions that the release of SAS is delayed even one more day. (Yes, I am looking forward to it THAT much)

1) The media packs mention several hypothetical maps. Are those parts of the real world with a non-historical distribution of bases, parts of the real world were no major campaigns took place (say, the Caribbean), or completely fictional ones?
1a) Are the number of bases and base ownership fixed per map or can you modify those when you set up your own campaign?
2) The Mediterranean Meltdown pack does not feature attacks by land-based air on enemy bases, nor do I recall the other pack mentioning them - are such attacks possible in SAS?
3) In the Mediterranean Meltdown pack, every ship seems to have returned to port by the end of the month. Is that part of the game, that all ships must be back in port by the end of the turn? Or was it just that scenario?
4) How are build times determined? The packs say three years build time for a battleship; is that the same for all battleships, or does build time vary by size - say, one month per 1000 tons of displacement?
4a) And what of build costs? Are they paid in a lump sum when construction is ordered, or continuously over the course of construction?
5) Is refuelling fully automated, or can the player set ships not to refuel at the target base, or take only enough fuel for the return voyage - so as not to deplete the supply stocks of the target base?
6) Once the war has started, can you freely deploy planes everywhere, even to bases where those planes could not possible get on their own? (I´m thinking here of the effort and risk the British had to go through to ferry fighters to Malta)
7) Are there plans for future upgrades to introduce "composite" countries - such as Italy plus Germany plus Vichy France, or US plus UK?

[tony_glazebrook]

So now I have some questions of my own. I would appreciate answers, but I do not expect anyone to get distracted by answering my questions that the release of SAS is delayed even one more day. (Yes, I am looking forward to it THAT much)

1) The media packs mention several hypothetical maps. Are those parts of the real world with a non-historical distribution of bases, parts of the real world were no major campaigns took place (say, the Caribbean), or completely fictional ones?
1a) Are the number of bases and base ownership fixed per map or can you modify those when you set up your own campaign?
2) The Mediterranean Meltdown pack does not feature attacks by land-based air on enemy bases, nor do I recall the other pack mentioning them - are such attacks possible in SAS?
3) In the Mediterranean Meltdown pack, every ship seems to have returned to port by the end of the month. Is that part of the game, that all ships must be back in port by the end of the turn? Or was it just that scenario?
4) How are build times determined? The packs say three years build time for a battleship; is that the same for all battleships, or does build time vary by size - say, one month per 1000 tons of displacement?
4a) And what of build costs? Are they paid in a lump sum when construction is ordered, or continuously over the course of construction?
5) Is refuelling fully automated, or can the player set ships not to refuel at the target base, or take only enough fuel for the return voyage - so as not to deplete the supply stocks of the target base?
6) Once the war has started, can you freely deploy planes everywhere, even to bases where those planes could not possible get on their own? (I´m thinking here of the effort and risk the British had to go through to ferry fighters to Malta)
7) Are there plans for future upgrades to introduce "composite" countries - such as Italy plus Germany plus Vichy France, or US plus UK?

In answer to your questions:
1: I don't think I now will have time to do hypothetical maps for release 1. Sorry. These would have been totally hypothetical geography maps. Instead,you can use the campaign builder to create hypothetical scenarios using any of the three 'real' maps (Pacific, Atlantic, Med). In the campaign builder you can delete ports, swap their controliing side and much else. I want to add to the maps in a 1.1 release when I can - say the Indian ocean and maybe then some genuine fantasy maps also. But I can't promise when 1.1. would be out at this stage.

2: Yes! And aerial attacks on ports,whether from carriers or land-based air, can damage the port and its associated infrastructure (dockyards, storages, defences, surrounding airfields, industrial plant), damage/sink ships in port, and destroy aircraft on the ground.

3: No, ships only return to port when their orders tell them to do so or they have to detach due to fuel or ammunition shortage or damage. BUT, at the end of every turn, every ship in a port gets taken out of its fleet and put in the 'reserve' fleet there ready for the next turn. (The 'reserve' fleet is like a pool, from which ships can be drawn when active fleetsare being created). This simplifies the administration of your fleets.

4a: the build cost is paid up front.

5: refuelling is fully automated as far as possible - to simplify things. Originally I had this as a player task but it got too onerous. Fuel usage is calculated hourly, and ships detach to return to the nearest suitable port when their fuel gets too low. Note I said 'suitable' port. If the nearest port does not have the infrastructure to refuel,or does but does not have enough resources, it is not suitable. When a ship refuels, it refuels as much as it can, up to 100%. The available oil fuel is shared around any ships in port needing refuelling but with priority to the bigger ships; and the refuelling, like fuel usage, is calculated hourly.

6: Yes - ac deployment is somewhat simplified in SAS. At some stage down the track I may introduce a more sophisticated model where players actually ferry aircraft; but the cons need to be considered also, ie this would add quite an administrative overhead on players. Note that the current deployment model prevents airfields and carriers taking more aircraft than they can operate,and taking aircraft types that they couldn't operate. So I have got the essentials modelled.

7: Yes, but these are goals at this stage only. I have not sketched out a solution to this, or how much effort would be involved. You can sort of do this already; but a fuller solution would be even better.

Cheers

(PS - this has delayed SAS release by approx 15 mins only :-))

[Christian Schwietzke]

In answer to your questions:
1: I don't think I now will have time to do hypothetical maps for release 1. Sorry. These would have been totally hypothetical geography maps. Instead,you can use the campaign builder to create hypothetical scenarios using any of the three 'real' maps (Pacific, Atlantic, Med). In the campaign builder you can delete ports, swap their controliing side and much else. I want to add to the maps in a 1.1 release when I can - say the Indian ocean and maybe then some genuine fantasy maps also. But I can't promise when 1.1. would be out at this stage.

Ah... okay.

Are there any plans - way down the line, if at all - for a map editor, i.e. a tool for players to create their own maps?


2: Yes! And aerial attacks on ports,whether from carriers or land-based air, can damage the port and its associated infrastructure (dockyards, storages, defences, surrounding airfields, industrial plant), damage/sink ships in port, and destroy aircraft on the ground.

Wonderful, wonderful... *cue evil laughter*



4a: the build cost is paid up front.

Somewhere down the line, maybe you can consider an optional rule that build costs are paid turn-by-turn?


5: refuelling is fully automated as far as possible - to simplify things. Originally I had this as a player task but it got too onerous. Fuel usage is calculated hourly, and ships detach to return to the nearest suitable port when their fuel gets too low. Note I said 'suitable' port. If the nearest port does not have the infrastructure to refuel,or does but does not have enough resources, it is not suitable. When a ship refuels, it refuels as much as it can, up to 100%. The available oil fuel is shared around any ships in port needing refuelling but with priority to the bigger ships; and the refuelling, like fuel usage, is calculated hourly.

Perhaps a useful function - for a later release - would be the possibility to have certain ports not be considered suitable by default, no matter what their infrastructure or resources are - that is, let the player set and remove an "unsuitable" flag for a port? In general I suppose it is a lot less onerous to do this on a per-port basis than on a per-fleet basis.
In the Med Meltdown scenario, we see that much of the gains from supplies delivered to Malta were negated because all the ships of the convoy (the battleship in particular, I guess) used up so many resources for refueling - it would be nice to be able to avoid that.


6: Yes - ac deployment is somewhat simplified in SAS. At some stage down the track I may introduce a more sophisticated model where players actually ferry aircraft; but the cons need to be considered also, ie this would add quite an administrative overhead on players. Note that the current deployment model prevents airfields and carriers taking more aircraft than they can operate,and taking aircraft types that they couldn't operate. So I have got the essentials modelled.

Yes, there is trade-off here. This too is probably something to cover with a optional rule.


7: Yes, but these are goals at this stage only. I have not sketched out a solution to this, or how much effort would be involved. You can sort of do this already; but a fuller solution would be even better.

As an ad-hoc solution, you could make it possible for the player to give either side access to the "unused" sides´ ship classes and aircraft types for construction. I mean, you can already design ship classes to imitate those of your allies, but you cannot do that with your allies´ aircraft.


Cheers

(PS - this has delayed SAS release by approx 15 mins only :-))

This will weigh down heavily on my conscience, but I think I´ll live. :(

[ReconPathFinder]

Had no idea there would be a campaign editor, very nice! This would also be capable of writing just single scenarios to correct?


Thank you

[Scott Chisholm]

Had no idea there would be a campaign editor, very nice! This would also be capable of writing just single scenarios to correct?


Thank you

Tony will slap me if I get this wrong....

The terms "scenario" and "campaign" mean the same thing in SAS. There is no "Sink the Bismark" scenario and "Atlantic War" campaign; they are all campaigns. Scenarios. Modules.

You can determine the scale of the campaigns by adjusting the various resource and strategy settings, but in the end everything is a campaign. Scenario. Same-same.

[tony_glazebrook]

Ah... okay.

Are there any plans - way down the line, if at all - for a map editor, i.e. a tool for players to create their own maps?



Wonderful, wonderful... *cue evil laughter*



Somewhere down the line, maybe you can consider an optional rule that build costs are paid turn-by-turn?



Perhaps a useful function - for a later release - would be the possibility to have certain ports not be considered suitable by default, no matter what their infrastructure or resources are - that is, let the player set and remove an "unsuitable" flag for a port? In general I suppose it is a lot less onerous to do this on a per-port basis than on a per-fleet basis.
In the Med Meltdown scenario, we see that much of the gains from supplies delivered to Malta were negated because all the ships of the convoy (the battleship in particular, I guess) used up so many resources for refueling - it would be nice to be able to avoid that.



Yes, there is trade-off here. This too is probably something to cover with a optional rule.



As an ad-hoc solution, you could make it possible for the player to give either side access to the "unused" sides´ ship classes and aircraft types for construction. I mean, you can already design ship classes to imitate those of your allies, but you cannot do that with your allies´ aircraft.



This will weigh down heavily on my conscience, but I think I´ll live. :(

Just a couple of quick responses:
- yes a map editor would be part of a later release; just can't say exactly when
- and re making ports unuited tio refuelling - you can do this already - the campaign creator allows you set dockyared infrastructure levels at the start - if it is below a certain level, the port can't refuel.

Cheers

[tony_glazebrook]

Tony will slap me if I get this wrong....

The terms "scenario" and "campaign" mean the same thing in SAS. There is no "Sink the Bismark" scenario and "Atlantic War" campaign; they are all campaigns. Scenarios. Modules.

You can determine the scale of the campaigns by adjusting the various resource and strategy settings, but in the end everything is a campaign. Scenario. Same-same.

Thanks Scott for answering that - you got it dead right :-)

PS guys - Scott is one of our lead beta testers on SAS and has a lot of knowledge of the product; quite a few recent features have come out of Scott's testing and suggestions ;)
His answers here can be taken as from the horse's mouth.

[DiFool6]

I'll also assume that only certain ports can fix certain levels of damage, as in having a drydock (floating or permanent) to fix severe hull damage.

[Scott Chisholm]

I'll also assume that only certain ports can fix certain levels of damage, as in having a drydock (floating or permanent) to fix severe hull damage.

There are settings for port and airfield infrastructure that are established during campaign creation, and can be improved upon (albeit slowly) during the course of the game through infrastructure reinvestment of resources.

The "level" of the setting determine the services that can be provided. For instance, a minimium level of port infrastructure is required to refuel ships. A higher level is required to repair ships, and an even higher level to build ships.

Likewise, airfields require a minimum level to operate fighters; and, the minimum level increases as the size of aircraft being operated increases: medium bombers require more infrastructure than fighters, and heavy bombers require more than medium bombers.

Attacks against bases can damage infrastructure and resources (read: supplies), reducing the "level" of the infrastructure and the ability to resupply ships. So, if the Italians start pounding Malta, you will see a gradual degradation of Malta's port/airfield infrastructure. Left unrepaired, you will gradually lose the ability to operate aircraft or repair/refuel ships at that location.

To replace resources lost in attacks, you need to run convoys (convoys are the life blood of SAS's "economy"). There's a reason why that portion of the Med was called "Bomb Alley": running the Malta convoys in not a trivial task.... Do you run several small, fast convoys and hope they don't get picked off piecemeal; or, do you run huge, heavily defended convoys that act as lightning rods for every Bad Guy in the theater? Do you build fleet carriers to hunt down enemy combatants, or escort carriers to defend your convoys? Do I build that 100kton super battleship, or 40 2,500 ton escorts to keep those pesky submarines at bay? Decisions, decisions....

SAS is all about operational/strategic decisions. If you start out with one strategy in mind and subsequently realize you want/need to shift it, it may take a year or more of game time for you to build enough assets to put your plan into effect. In the meantime, you hold what you have with the assets available.

Sort of like it really happened, eh? :cool:

[Christian Schwietzke]

There are settings for port and airfield infrastructure that are established during campaign creation, and can be improved upon (albeit slowly) during the course of the game through infrastructure reinvestment of resources.

Resources from the home port, or resources at the base in question?


The "level" of the setting determine the services that can be provided. For instance, a minimium level of port infrastructure is required to refuel ships. A higher level is required to repair ships, and an even higher level to build ships.

I was under the impression that you can only build ships in your home port?


Likewise, airfields require a minimum level to operate fighters; and, the minimum level increases as the size of aircraft being operated increases: medium bombers require more infrastructure than fighters, and heavy bombers require more than medium bombers.

Attacks against bases can damage infrastructure and resources (read: supplies), reducing the "level" of the infrastructure and the ability to resupply ships. So, if the Italians start pounding Malta, you will see a gradual degradation of Malta's port/airfield infrastructure. Left unrepaired, you will gradually lose the ability to operate aircraft or repair/refuel ships at that location.

Is there a difference, in cost and time, between repairing damaged infrastructure and building new infrastructure? I mean, if I build Malta (for example) up to supporting medium bombers, and the Italians known it down to the level of supporting fighters, will getting it back up to medium bomber level be as hard as it was the first time?

On a related issue - is it possible for the attacker to concentrate on bombing specific parts of a base? Say, on the airfields, or on the storage?


To replace resources lost in attacks, you need to run convoys (convoys are the life blood of SAS's "economy"). There's a reason why that portion of the Med was called "Bomb Alley": running the Malta convoys in not a trivial task.... Do you run several small, fast convoys and hope they don't get picked off piecemeal; or, do you run huge, heavily defended convoys that act as lightning rods for every Bad Guy in the theater? Do you build fleet carriers to hunt down enemy combatants, or escort carriers to defend your convoys? Do I build that 100kton super battleship, or 40 2,500 ton escorts to keep those pesky submarines at bay? Decisions, decisions....

But nothing is so embarassing as to have escort carriers and escorts, and then realize you forgot to build freighters... :D


SAS is all about operational/strategic decisions. If you start out with one strategy in mind and subsequently realize you want/need to shift it, it may take a year or more of game time for you to build enough assets to put your plan into effect. In the meantime, you hold what you have with the assets available.

Sort of like it really happened, eh? :cool:

I´m sure Nimitz or Yamamoto, or any of the others for that matter, would have been all too happy to be allow to decide which ships were built for their navy. I do recall that Dönitz fought bitter battles over having higher priority given to more submarines rather than big surface ships.

[Scott Chisholm]

Chaos,

I'm going to defer to Tony for the game engine answers: he's making tweaks and I don't want to misrepresent anything. I'm just a humble beta tester.... :o

[Christian Schwietzke]

Okay.

Since we´re already in the business of disrupting Tony´s work, I´ve got a few more questions.

Does the game include destroyer transports - i.e. the possibility to build escort-type ships with at least a small cargo capacity?
Does the game include cargo aircraft? The C-47 and the Ju-52 are both rather famous for their role, and I would love to see them included at least at some point in the future.

Besides, Tony, you seem to have overlooked my build time question in the opening post. Is build time determined by size, or just a fixed time for each ship type?

[Scott Chisholm]

Okay.

Since we´re already in the business of disrupting Tony´s work, I´ve got a few more questions.

Does the game include destroyer transports - i.e. the possibility to build escort-type ships with at least a small cargo capacity?
Does the game include cargo aircraft? The C-47 and the Ju-52 are both rather famous for their role, and I would love to see them included at least at some point in the future.

Besides, Tony, you seem to have overlooked my build time question in the opening post. Is build time determined by size, or just a fixed time for each ship type?

I think I can tackle some of these....

Combatants can be used to transport troops. You don't build "destroyer transports"; instead, you simply assign destroyers/warships to transport troops.

Build time is determined by size, not type. At 35,000 ton battleship will take less time to build than a 60,000 ton battleship.

I hope that helps!

[tony_glazebrook]

I think I can tackle some of these....

Combatants can be used to transport troops. You don't build "destroyer transports"; instead, you simply assign destroyers/warships to transport troops.

Build time is determined by size, not type. At 35,000 ton battleship will take less time to build than a 60,000 ton battleship.

I hope that helps!


Further to Scott's answer,naval vessels can transport troops and/or supplies;merchant ships (and thereare 5 sizes of them from approx 3000 tonnes to 15000 tonnes) can transport these plus raw materials instead or as well.

Sorry I can't remeber whether the c47 or Ju52 is in there now - I am away from my computerright now. If they aren't, we'll look at at adding them in in a post release as soon as we can manage.

Cheers

[tony_glazebrook]

Resources from the home port, or resources at the base in question?



I was under the impression that you can only build ships in your home port?



Is there a difference, in cost and time, between repairing damaged infrastructure and building new infrastructure? I mean, if I build Malta (for example) up to supporting medium bombers, and the Italians known it down to the level of supporting fighters, will getting it back up to medium bomber level be as hard as it was the first time?

On a related issue - is it possible for the attacker to concentrate on bombing specific parts of a base? Say, on the airfields, or on the storage?



But nothing is so embarassing as to have escort carriers and escorts, and then realize you forgot to build freighters... :D



I´m sure Nimitz or Yamamoto, or any of the others for that matter, would have been all too happy to be allow to decide which ships were built for their navy. I do recall that Dönitz fought bitter battles over having higher priority given to more submarines rather than big surface ships.

Ships can only be built at home port and then only if the port has sufficient infrastructure and enough resources

The notional cost of 'building' infrastructure is the same whether it is being built to be ready for the start of the game (in the campaign creator),or during the game, through improvement or repair. Different types of infrastructure though have different levels of cost; and the cost of developing your industrial base (which is one of your types of infrastructure) has a special accelerator - it gets much costlier (and time consuming) the higher the level.

It is not possible to target say just airfields; the damage from bombing raids gets shared around (with some randomness).

Cheers

[tony_glazebrook]

I'll also assume that only certain ports can fix certain levels of damage, as in having a drydock (floating or permanent) to fix severe hull damage.

Not in release 1 - I intend to add something in a post release to discriiminate between levels of damage repair that a port can do
- it's not a hard job but it won't make the cut for release 1 due to time constraints.

[Millsy]

Assume the air elements include historically non-naval elements such as for example RAF Bomber command as these could be used to raid ports (Brest for example was I beleive most bombed place in France (outside perhaps Normandy).

[Scott Chisholm]

Assume the air elements include historically non-naval elements such as for example RAF Bomber command as these could be used to raid ports (Brest for example was I beleive most bombed place in France (outside perhaps Normandy).

Wellingtons, B-17s, B-24s, etc are included in the game and can be used for bombardment attacks and anti-shipping attacks.

[Christian Schwietzke]

It isn´t important to have the C-47 and Ju-52 in particular in the game; I just wanted to know if transport planes in general are in the game, and these two are probably the most famous types in WW2. I´ve used them to great effect in other games, and I would miss them.

[DiFool6]

Here's another Q. Do ships gain experience as they perform missions, sail from point A to point B, with especially large gains when engaging the enemy?

[Scott Chisholm]

Here's another Q. Do ships gain experience as they perform missions, sail from point A to point B, with especially large gains when engaging the enemy?

Yes, they do. ;)