Boardgame help

[jsom]

Hello,


I have been playing WCDB and looking forward to 2.0 to come out however I have been wanting to get into naval boardgames and eventually miniatures if possible. I have Avalanche Press Great War At Sea - Mediterranean ( I also just ordered Jutland at a great price) and have been looking over the rules. There are rules for solitare play but really I'm not sure where to begin. Is it possible to play these types of games by email (obviously both parties would have to have the game)? The rules seem kind of daunting to a newbie like myself and I was wondering if someone had the game maybe to play an introductory scenario to uh...get my feet wet:)


John

[john964]

Hello,


I have been playing WCDB and looking forward to 2.0 to come out however I have been wanting to get into naval boardgames and eventually miniatures if possible. I have Avalanche Press Great War At Sea - Mediterranean ( I also just ordered Jutland at a great price) and have been looking over the rules. There are rules for solitare play but really I'm not sure where to begin. Is it possible to play these types of games by email (obviously both parties would have to have the game)? The rules seem kind of daunting to a newbie like myself and I was wondering if someone had the game maybe to play an introductory scenario to uh...get my feet wet:)


Johnjohn try the small scenerios like destroyers vs destroyers use same class and no more than 10-12 ships total. If you want to fight a battle, I recomend battles with only a few different types like Falklands or Dogger Bank.

[Scott Chisholm]

Hello,


I have been playing WCDB and looking forward to 2.0 to come out however I have been wanting to get into naval boardgames and eventually miniatures if possible. I have Avalanche Press Great War At Sea - Mediterranean ( I also just ordered Jutland at a great price) and have been looking over the rules. There are rules for solitare play but really I'm not sure where to begin. Is it possible to play these types of games by email (obviously both parties would have to have the game)? The rules seem kind of daunting to a newbie like myself and I was wondering if someone had the game maybe to play an introductory scenario to uh...get my feet wet:)


John

John,

Have you looked at the NWS: Naval Warfare WWI and WWII games? The solitaire games play very much like WCDB, and you can play fairly large scenarios with little difficulty. The way the rules are written, you can add advanced and optional rules to suit your tastes.

The "AI sheet" (as I call) it for the solitaire games works pretty well.

Just a thought.

[jsom]

john try the small scenerios like destroyers vs destroyers use same class and no more than 10-12 ships total. If you want to fight a battle, I recomend battles with only a few different types like Falklands or Dogger Bank.



Thanks for the reply John964.....yes definitly, the Mediterranean game has a lot of scenarios ranging from very small to large missions and battles. Have not received Jutland yet but I don't think I am hardly ready for even Dogger Bank:) It just that the rules seem to be all over the place...even the basic rules. A lot to digest for someone new to the game. I guess I could play both sides in a small scenario and if someone has the game or is familiar with the system I could post questions as I go along?


John

[jsom]

John,

Have you looked at the NWS: Naval Warfare WWI and WWII games? The solitaire games play very much like WCDB, and you can play fairly large scenarios with little difficulty. The way the rules are written, you can add advanced and optional rules to suit your tastes.

The "AI sheet" (as I call) it for the solitaire games works pretty well.

Just a thought.


You know...I have looked at them and have been meaning to call NWS concerning them. It does not seem like they are 'boardgames' per se. It says everything you need is on the CD-Rom? Am I correct on that?

[William Miller]

Hello John,

Yes -- everything you need to play is included on the NW-WWI / NW-WWII CD-ROMs except for standard six-sided die (you need at least one). This includes the full rules manual, reference charts, unit (ship/aircraft/sub/) data cards, counter sheet, marker cards, hex maps, scenarios, etc. You would of course need to print out what data/marker cards are required for the scenario(s) you wish to play, possibly a map if you are using the hex-map option, and a countersheet unless you are using minatures or other markers to represent ships/units (I have used 'Axis and Allies©' plastic pieces, pre-cut counters from other wargames etc as playing pieces for NW).

[john964]

Thanks for the reply John964.....yes definitly, the Mediterranean game has a lot of scenarios ranging from very small to large missions and battles. Have not received Jutland yet but I don't think I am hardly ready for even Dogger Bank:) It just that the rules seem to be all over the place...even the basic rules. A lot to digest for someone new to the game. I guess I could play both sides in a small scenario and if someone has the game or is familiar with the system I could post questions as I go along?


John
John what I am talking about is just the Battle Cruisers plus Blucher. Not all the ACR's CL's SC's and DD's that were in the fight also. That IIRC would give you a fight of 9-10 ships. The same for the Falklands IIRC at the Falklands the RN had 2 BC's 2 ACR's and 3 CL's while the IGN had 2 ACR's 2 CL's and 2-4 SC's

[Scott Chisholm]

John,

NWS: Naval Warfare WWI and WWII are a pair of games that don't really fall into a set mould. They are easy to learn, and fun to play. They do a great job of making "large" battles easy to play.

The heart of the game are the unit cards - roughly playing card sized data cards that have all of the information you need for each ship/submarine/aircraft/land unit.

The rules are arranged in basic, advanced and optional sets. There are comprehensive rules for playing the game solitaire, which is exactly why I purchased the games in the first place. When playing the game solitaire, play is conducted on a stylized "range band" grid that is very much like the range bands of WCDB, except that there are only three bands (short, medium and long range).

When playing solitaire, there is a cheat sheet that I call the "AI Sheet" that guides how your opponent reacts. That sheet is tailored to the nationality of your opponents, so the Brits act differently from the Germans, etc.

The solitaire game is intended to use the basic rules (and the stylized range grid map), but the rules are such that you can add advanced and optional rules to suit you desired level of complexity/reality. As I mentioned earlier, solitaire play is very much like WCDB in that you are either closing, maintaining, or opening range. The rules for destroyers making torpedo attacks do a good job at simulating the difficulties in obtaining a firing position (destroyers have to close to "close" range, which isn't always that easy).

There are counters that one can use, but I use 1/6000 scale miniatures as playing pieces. The data cards are not used on the maps; instead, they are set to the side for reference and damage recording.

The Advanced rules require the use of the hex maps that come with the game. Though I have not yet done so, it seems as though it would be fairly straightforward to use the AI Sheet while playing the advanced game if you didn't want to "play" both sides.

With just a little bit of tweaking, you can adapt the game for use as a set of miniatures rules. Of coures, it you were interested in more than casual miniatures play, DR/BZ would probably be a better way to go.

There are rules for aviation, so if you want to recreate the carrier duels of WWII, you can. Quite honestly, I've only played the WWI game, so I do not have any experience with large scale air combat.

There are extensive campaign rules that have you generating random missions and stringing them together to play out a short campaign, or an entire war. If you were so inclined, you could use those rules to generate battles that you could play out using WCDB.

There is an expansion to NWS: WC WWI that adds the Russo-Japanese war.

Everything (other than dice) that you need to play comes on the CD. You will need to print out the ship data cards needed for each scenario you play; if you decide to print out everything, you'll burn the better part of a ream of paper. I'd recommend printing the data cards on cardstock. For storage, I use those plastic baseball card holders that fit into a 3-ring binder. If I remember correctly, there is a computer tool that assists you in applying die roll modifiers during combat resolution, but I've never needed it. Of course, I might be confusing that with the computer tool for DR/BZ. :o

Finally, I can speak with complete authority that if you were to have any questions, William Miller would be more than willing to answer them. Lord knows I pestered him mercilessly when I first started playing the games. ;)

[jsom]

Hello John,

Yes -- everything you need to play is included on the NW-WWI / NW-WWII CD-ROMs except for standard six-sided die (you need at least one). This includes the full rules manual, reference charts, unit (ship/aircraft/sub/) data cards, counter sheet, marker cards, hex maps, scenarios, etc. You would of course need to print out what data/marker cards are required for the scenario(s) you wish to play, possibly a map if you are using the hex-map option, and a countersheet unless you are using minatures or other markers to represent ships/units (I have used 'Axis and Allies©' plastic pieces, pre-cut counters from other wargames etc as playing pieces for NW).


I don't quite understand...you say hex maps are included on the CD-ROM and then you go on to say ....

"You would of course need to print out what data/marker cards are required for the scenario(s) you wish to play, possibly a map if you are using the hex-map option,"

Wouldn't I need a map to play at all? I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'm looking at the Naval Warfare - World War 1 info and download page where it says features include 50 page printed rule book, 7 color maps.... Are we talking about the same thing?:)


John

[jsom]

Lord knows I pestered him mercilessly when I first started playing the games. ;)

Scott,

Yeah.....if you look at my last reply to Mr. Miller it looks like I'm heading in that direction. Sorry.....:)


Thank you for description of the game and what it can be. I find the part about adaptability to miniature rules especially appealing as I would like to venture into that area in the future. But not until I can at least be somewhat adept at board style play:)

John

[Warship NWS]

Color hex maps are included in the PDF files that you can easily print out on 8.5x11 paper, thicker cardstock works better - similiar to what business cards are made out of.

[William Miller]

I don't quite understand...you say hex maps are included on the CD-ROM and then you go on to say ....

"You would of course need to print out what data/marker cards are required for the scenario(s) you wish to play, possibly a map if you are using the hex-map option,"

Wouldn't I need a map to play at all? I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'm looking at the Naval Warfare - World War 1 info and download page where it says features include 50 page printed rule book, 7 color maps.... Are we talking about the same thing?:)


John

John,

The NW-WWI/NW-WWII CD-ROMs are electronic products only, no printed material is included. We used to sell printed versions (50+ page printed manual, hundreds of printed data cards, printed color maps, etc) but frankly the cost for quality printing for such a huge game is prohibitive...so we now offer them in PDF format on CD-ROM, you can print out exactly what you need to play.

We designed the NW games to be easily played as either a board game (using the range-band map), a hex-based wargame, or as miniature rules for use with larger counters or cast miniatures: I have used my fleets of 1/6000 miniatures many times for the games.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Thanks for the reply John964.....yes definitly, the Mediterranean game has a lot of scenarios ranging from very small to large missions and battles. Have not received Jutland yet but I don't think I am hardly ready for even Dogger Bank:) It just that the rules seem to be all over the place...even the basic rules. A lot to digest for someone new to the game. I guess I could play both sides in a small scenario and if someone has the game or is familiar with the system I could post questions as I go along?


John

John:

Owning the entire Avalanche Press series I can say that the battle scenarios are not too hard to play solitaire, especially the smaller ones as has been mentioned. Don't try to tackle Jutland until you are used to the movement system and the phases of game play. The operational scenarios while interesting are a bit more complex as this is where you have to keep track of fuel, give orders to your various fleets, etc. That really is better played face to face.

[jsom]

John,

The NW-WWI/NW-WWII CD-ROMs are electronic products only, no printed material is included. We used to sell printed versions (50+ page printed manual, hundreds of printed data cards, printed color maps, etc) but frankly the cost for quality printing for such a huge game is prohibitive...so we now offer them in PDF format on CD-ROM, you can print out exactly what you need to play.

We designed the NW games to be easily played as either a board game (using the range-band map), a hex-based wargame, or as miniature rules for use with larger counters or cast miniatures: I have used my fleets of 1/6000 miniatures many times for the games.


Hi William,

Ok so everything is to be printed out. I'm not familiar with the range band map and did not see an example of that in the sample pack that I downloaded. I also do not have miniatures yet. I'm more familiar with the hex-based map that I saw in the sample. My question is what exactly am I using to show my ships/fleets movement on the map? I saw the sample unit data cards but they would be too big for the map?


John

[Warship NWS]

Hi Bill,

Ok so everything is to be printed out. I'm not familiar with the range band map and did not see an example of that in the sample pack that I downloaded. I also do not have miniatures yet. I'm more familiar with the hex-based map that I saw in the sample. My question is what exactly am I using to show my ships/fleets movement on the map? I saw the sample unit data cards but they would be too big for the map?


John

Hi, this is Chris, (Please use William instead of Bill for my Asst. Director. ;))

There is a counter sheet included in the PDF file for marking divisions of ships, squadrons of planes, etc. on the hex map. You print out only the data cards you need, the map you need, the counters, and a few marker cards and your good to go for your first battle.

Thanks.

[jsom]

John:

Owning the entire Avalanche Press series I can say that the battle scenarios are not too hard to play solitaire, especially the smaller ones as has been mentioned. Don't try to tackle Jutland until you are used to the movement system and the phases of game play. The operational scenarios while interesting are a bit more complex as this is where you have to keep track of fuel, give orders to your various fleets, etc. That really is better played face to face.


Hi Ed,

Yes absolutely.....I picked up Jutland because I have been reading on the battle lately and I got it at half the regular price but knowing that I have to learn the basics of the system. I figured I could learn the system on the GWAS-MED game but it looks like it will be slow learning:) Face to face would be ideal but I don't know anyone or know of any clubs in my area that has an interest.


John

[jsom]

Hi, this is Chris, (Please use William instead of Bill for my Asst. Director. ;))


Hi Chris,

Duly noted and edited!


There is a counter sheet included in the PDF file for marking divisions of ships, squadrons of planes, etc. on the hex map. You print out only the data cards you need, the map you need, the counters, and a few marker cards and your good to go for your first battle.

Thanks.

Ok bear with me.....the counter sheet would be for movement of fleets around the map but what happens when you actually go to battle? How would it be shown that one ship in the fleet is firing on a particular ship in the opposing fleet? Is that when you would use the unit data cards...but they would not actually be on the map?

[Ed Rotondaro]

Hi Ed,

Yes absolutely.....I picked up Jutland because I have been reading on the battle lately and I got it at half the regular price but knowing that I have to learn the basics of the system. I figured I could learn the system on the GWAS-MED game but it looks like it will be slow learning:) Face to face would be ideal but I don't know anyone or know of any clubs in my area that has an interest.


John

John:

Yes, that is a common problem for us boardgamers. I guess that's why conventions are so popular. WCDB does an excellent job of handling combat mechanics for WWI battles and it has most of the navies you would need to recreate the battles described in any of the AP Great War at Sea titles. About the only things lacking are very small combatants like motor torpedo boats, minelayers and minesweepers and submarines. Robert of the NWS team has written up the bulk of the WWI surface battles as WCDB scenarios that you can download. I've even contributed a few although my forte is more WWII in the Pacific.

[jsom]

John:

Yes, that is a common problem for us boardgamers. I guess that's why conventions are so popular. WCDB does an excellent job of handling combat mechanics for WWI battles and it has most of the navies you would need to recreate the battles described in any of the AP Great War at Sea titles. About the only things lacking are very small combatants like motor torpedo boats, minelayers and minesweepers and submarines. Robert of the NWS team has written up the bulk of the WWI surface battles as WCDB scenarios that you can download. I've even contributed a few although my forte is more WWII in the Pacific.


Well if you note my original post I have been playing WCDB and do enjoy it very much and I'm sure more so once the mapping system comes out.:) And yes I have downloaded a lot of the scenarios and am also interested in WWII naval warfare. But like I said I have been wanting to eventually get into miniatures and it seemed to me the boardgame system is a natural progression to that.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Well if you note my original post I have been playing WCDB and do enjoy it very much and I'm sure more so once the mapping system comes out.:) And yes I have downloaded a lot of the scenarios and am also interested in WWII naval warfare. But like I said I have been wanting to eventually get into miniatures and it seemed to me the boardgame system is a natural progression to that.

John:

You know that NWS also offers another system entitled "Dreadnought Rising" which is a miniatures system with computer software to assist game play? There is also "Battleship Zenith" which covers the time period of WWII. You find out more information on the NWS gamestore page. If you have any questions, I'm sure Chris or William can answer them.

[Scott Chisholm]

Ok bear with me.....the counter sheet would be for movement of fleets around the map but what happens when you actually go to battle? How would it be shown that one ship in the fleet is firing on a particular ship in the opposing fleet? Is that when you would use the unit data cards...but they would not actually be on the map?

John,

The counters represent divisions of ships, nominally numbering from one to four ships. The ships represented by the counters are assumed to be in either column or line abreast formations. That only becomes important when using some of the advanced or optional rules.

To the side of the map, you would have your data cards arranged by division. The data cards have a line drawing of the ship, and the weapon/armor/speed values. For ships/aircraft with expendable ordnance (bombs, torpedoes, etc), you would place "Ordnance Cards" under/next to the appropriate unit. When you expend ordnance, you remove the appropriate number of ordnance cards.

Ships/units can take four levels of damage before being destroyed; damage is cumulative, and applied simultaneously at the end of a turn. Damage is recorded on the data cards by whatever means you find effective.

So, the data cards serve as both reference and status markers.

To effect combat, you simply declare which ship is firing at which enemy. Combat is an opposed die roll mechanism: the attacker rolls a die and adds his attack value, while the defender rolls a die and adds his armor value. The difference, if positive, is the damage inflicted. Advanced and optional rules bring various modifiers modifiers into play.

As the game is on digital media, you will need to develop your own method of marking damage. The original hardcopy of the game came with plastic paper clips of different colors. I use yellow, orange, and red foam "chits" I punched out of sheets of that craft foam you can get a Michaels or Hobby Lobby. I also found myself using pennies as torpedo counters in lieu of the ordnance cards (there are a lot of torpedos involved when you get 20 or more destroyers on each side!). I've sinced moved to foam chits with T(orpedo), B(omb), R(ocket), G(un), or A(SW) written on them to represent the various types of ordnance.

The Grid Map is essentially a sheet of paper with, I beleive, six "cells" or "bands" labeled long, medium, and short (from the outside of the map to the center). It's actually a little more complicated than that, but that will hopefully give you the idea. Your division counters are placed on the Grid Map and moved between the range bands. As with the hex maps, the data cards are kept to the side of the map.

Once you get the hang of how the various modifiers are applied, the game play is very quick and smooth. I really enjoy the games quite a bit.

[Warship NWS]

What we used to ship with the printed versions was miniature multi-colored poker chips.. they work real good also for marking damage and such.

[Warship NWS]

For more about our miniatures rules go here;
http://forums.navalwarfare.org//forumdisplay.php?f=10

[Warship NWS]

As a note, you can go to our forum pages covering our NW board game series and download the full PDF rules so you can make a more informed buying decision,

http://forums.navalwarfare.org//forumdisplay.php?f=12

Let me know if this helps any. Thanks. :)

[jsom]

John,

The counters represent divisions of ships, nominally numbering from one to four ships. The ships represented by the counters are assumed to be in either column or line abreast formations. That only becomes important when using some of the advanced or optional rules.

To the side of the map, you would have your data cards arranged by division. The data cards have a line drawing of the ship, and the weapon/armor/speed values. For ships/aircraft with expendable ordnance (bombs, torpedoes, etc), you would place "Ordnance Cards" under/next to the appropriate unit. When you expend ordnance, you remove the appropriate number of ordnance cards.

Ships/units can take four levels of damage before being destroyed; damage is cumulative, and applied simultaneously at the end of a turn. Damage is recorded on the data cards by whatever means you find effective.

I also read in the rules of a variant by dice roll where you can simulate the British battlecruisers propencity for magazine explosions at Jutland.



So, the data cards serve as both reference and status markers.


And since you would always have them on file to be printed you could mark them or whatever and be able to print what you need for your next battle or scenario as you go along. Correct?


To effect combat, you simply declare which ship is firing at which enemy. Combat is an opposed die roll mechanism: the attacker rolls a die and adds his attack value, while the defender rolls a die and adds his armor value. The difference, if positive, is the damage inflicted. Advanced and optional rules bring various modifiers modifiers into play.

As the game is on digital media, you will need to develop your own method of marking damage. The original hardcopy of the game came with plastic paper clips of different colors. I use yellow, orange, and red foam "chits" I punched out of sheets of that craft foam you can get a Michaels or Hobby Lobby. I also found myself using pennies as torpedo counters in lieu of the ordnance cards (there are a lot of torpedos involved when you get 20 or more destroyers on each side!). I've sinced moved to foam chits with T(orpedo), B(omb), R(ocket), G(un), or A(SW) written on them to represent the various types of ordnance.


The Grid Map is essentially a sheet of paper with, I beleive, six "cells" or "bands" labeled long, medium, and short (from the outside of the map to the center). It's actually a little more complicated than that, but that will hopefully give you the idea. Your division counters are placed on the Grid Map and moved between the range bands. As with the hex maps, the data cards are kept to the side of the map.

So the hex map would be used for fleet movements and once contact is made you would then use the grid map for battle?


Once you get the hang of how the various modifiers are applied, the game play is very quick and smooth. I really enjoy the games quite a bit.


Thanks again Scott.....one more thing....when I order...I notice on the info page for the game that it is a pdf download? Where would I order the cd-rom?

edit....duh...I guess I would get the pdf and put it on cdrom myself:)


John

[jsom]

John:

You know that NWS also offers another system entitled "Dreadnought Rising" which is a miniatures system with computer software to assist game play? There is also "Battleship Zenith" which covers the time period of WWII. You find out more information on the NWS gamestore page. If you have any questions, I'm sure Chris or William can answer them.


Indeed I do know of NWS miniatures games. I mean I know of them. In the future I would like to know them:) That's what I'm aiming for eventually.

[Warship NWS]

Hi John, the digital download version is not that large of a download so a CDR is not really needed. If you prefer a CDR delivery of the game however let us know.

Thanks.

[Warship NWS]

If your moving into the "board game and miniatures" genre then I would recommend going with the NW board games first as they are easy to jump into and start playing very quickly, especially when using the basic rules. From there you can move up to the advanced rules in the NW board games or the DZ/BR miniatures rules which are for intermediate and advanced naval wargamers. Both are fairly fast to play as both offer computer combat assistance software. Also note, if you ever have any game play questions after you buy either one.. we will be here to help. :)

Thanks.

[Scott Chisholm]

I also read in the rules of a variant by dice roll where you can simulate the British battlecruisers propencity for magazine explosions at Jutland.

Decidedly uncool when that happens! :eek:


And since you would always have them on file to be printed you could mark them or whatever and be able to print what you need for your next battle or scenario as you go along. Correct?

Yep. I'm a very tactile person, so I printed everything out and use my foam 1/2 inch diameter "poker chips" to mark damage and track ordnance.


So the hex map would be used for fleet movements and once contact is made you would then use the grid map for battle?

No. The Grid Map is only for the Basic/Solitaire game. The hex map is for the Advanced game, which, as with all games, you can play solitaire if you are honest with yourself. The "AI Sheet" makes playing the advanced rules a bit more interesting.


Thanks again Scott.....one more thing....when I order...I notice on the info page for the game that it is a pdf download? Where would I order the cd-rom?

Chris can better answer that question; I'm a lowly Beta Tester and game junkie. If I remember correctly, you purchase the game via the NWS store and download the file. I seem to remember Chris emailing me a key code, but I cannot remember for which game I needed it.

I'd forgotten about the rules being on the website. :o Download the Demo pack (if you have not already done so) - it has the rules and some other information that will explain the game much better that I can. If you want to get a feel for how the game plays, make a copy or two of the Agincourt and have a mano-a-mano solitaire duel.