Odysseus' return from Trojan War dated

[old_pop2000]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25337041/from/RSS/

I wonder if it was AM or PM. As if it really matters. He was late for dinner anyway.

[Ed Rotondaro]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25337041/from/RSS/

I wonder if it was AM or PM. As if it really matters. He was late for dinner anyway.

Dennis:

I'll give them credit for their research, but you are dealing with mythology here which only has a tenous connection to reality. Reminds me of some of the stuff I read about early Irish heroes like Fionn mac Cumhaill or Cormac mac Airt. They have historical basis, but are wrapped in so much legendry that truth becomes hard to sort out. Still it makes for a good read on a stormy day with a cup of tea near by.

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

I'll give them credit for their research, but you are dealing with mythology here which only has a tenous connection to reality. Reminds me of some of the stuff I read about early Irish heroes like Fionn mac Cumhaill or Cormac mac Airt. They have historical basis, but are wrapped in so much legendry that truth becomes hard to sort out. Still it makes for a good read on a stormy day with a cup of tea near by.

Interesting that they have determined the return date for a man who has never been confirmed to have lived. A war that has never been determined to have occurred and for a city that might or might not have existed. Yes, there is a tell at Hisarlik with nine layers of cities, one from the early Bronze age with bodies but that might have been destroyed by earthquake. Troy V or VIa are the only good candidate.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Interesting that they have determined the return date for a man who has never been confirmed to have lived. A war that has never been determined to have occurred and for a city that might or might not have existed. Yes, there is a tell at Hisarlik with nine layers of cities, one from the early Bronze age with bodies but that might have been destroyed by earthquake. Troy V or VIa are the only good candidate.

Dennis:

And they get paid to do this stuff!:D

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

And they get paid to do this stuff!:D And well, I bet. They get to travel. Hard to take. Of course, they aren't retired, are they. :rolleyes::D:D

[old_pop2000]

Something that has always puzzled me since I read Homer's work. If Odysseus was such a great warrior, why did it take him so long to get home? I mean, the Mediterranean Sea isn't exactly the biggest pond in the world. He was only on the NW side of Turkey, probably not more than 150 miles from Ithaca across the Adriatic. At that distance, I bet I could find my way home. I gotta feeling he didn't want to go home.

[djcyclone]

I was under the impression that they had proven that attack on Troy did occur. I do not know anything about the specific people involved, but I did read a something about when they returned home.

It seems before the declaration of war against troy, the Greeks had been having some trouble at home with what we would call bandits, or thiefs. Anyway they where able to keep everything under control with the army. However the war against Troy lasted somewhere near 10 years (not a couple of days like the latest movie). It is theorized that when they returned home they would have found all of their loved ones murdered, and their homes and vilages pilaged. This may be a reason why the guy you mentioned chose to take so long to come home.

Talk about the spoils of war I guess. Nothing worse than for a soildier to go and fight for his country only to return to find that the real enemy was attacking his home when he was not even there.

[old_pop2000]

I was under the impression that they had proven that attack on Troy did occur. I do not know anything about the specific people involved, but I did read a something about when they returned home.

It seems before the declaration of war against troy, the Greeks had been having some trouble at home with what we would call bandits, or thiefs. Anyway they where able to keep everything under control with the army. However the war against Troy lasted somewhere near 10 years (not a couple of days like the latest movie). It is theorized that when they returned home they would have found all of their loved ones murdered, and their homes and vilages pilaged. This may be a reason why the guy you mentioned chose to take so long to come home.

Talk about the spoils of war I guess. Nothing worse than for a soildier to go and fight for his country only to return to find that the real enemy was attacking his home when he was not even there.


No, actually they haven't.

We have nine cities built one on top of the other on a Tell in NW Turkey called Hisarlik . A German amateur archelogoist name Heinrich Schliemenn and the men who followed him, like Carl Blegan, excavated the site. Excavation is still in progress. It is believed that the sixth and the seventh may be the best candidates for Homer's Troy. It is believed, not proven, that the Trojan War was actually a series of conflicts or a process and that Homer decided to write about one or collected the stories of many and made a book from them.

Troy VI is a great city looking pretty much like Homer described it. Problem is that it was most likely destroyed by an earthquake.

Troy VII looks like a city that was destroyed by assault with arrowheads laying about except, it is nothing like the city described in the book.

In the end, it looks like Homer simply wrote a good alternate history of wars in the Bronze age. Taking a piece from different stories and collecting them together. Nice fiction, but almost no proof of anything happening the way he describes. There had been fighting in the area for thousands of years. The site was a great harbor, before it silted up.

He might have been the Harry Turtledove of his age.

Sorry to be a killjoy, but facts are facts.:D

As for Agamemnon, possibly his wife would have been better to have sent him a "Dear John" letter and let it be instead killing him and his newly won concubine, Cassandra. He goes away for 10 years to fight a war, comes back with a girlfriend and expects his wife, who now has a boyfriend to be understanding. He don't know her very well, do he.

[asnrobert]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25337041/from/RSS/

I wonder if it was AM or PM. As if it really matters. He was late for dinner anyway.

Pretty interesting story, Dennis. How do you dig these things up?

At the end of the article, there was a link to another story about Moses tripping out on hallucinogens when he was on Mount Sinai. :rolleyes:

[Campy]

At the end of the article, there was a link to another story about Moses tripping out on hallucinogens when he was on Mount Sinai.


Shanon wrote that he was very familiar with the affects of the ayahuasca plant, having “partaken of the ... brew about 160 times in various locales and contexts.”

I wonder if that includes while writing the article.

Frank

[Ed Rotondaro]

Something that has always puzzled me since I read Homer's work. If Odysseus was such a great warrior, why did it take him so long to get home? I mean, the Mediterranean Sea isn't exactly the biggest pond in the world. He was only on the NW side of Turkey, probably not more than 150 miles from Ithaca across the Adriatic. At that distance, I bet I could find my way home. I gotta feeling he didn't want to go home.


Dennis:

It makes for a better story if he wanders around for ten years.;) Maybe Penelope was a real nagging type?

[Ed Rotondaro]

I wonder if that includes while writing the article.

Frank

Campy:

That's why I stick to Scotch and wine, they taste better and are less brain damaging. Or so they say.;)

[old_pop2000]

Pretty interesting story, Dennis. How do you dig these things up?

At the end of the article, there was a link to another story about Moses tripping out on hallucinogens when he was on Mount Sinai. :rolleyes:

Obviously we have some scientists with too much time on their hands. ;)

As to the articles, I research the internet for these little jewels, knowledge is where you find it. Hope they are enjoyed by all.

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

It makes for a better story if he wanders around for ten years.;) Maybe Penelope was a real nagging type?

She might have had face that made a train take a dirt road. I am sorry, but not all the queens looked like Diane Kruger in "Troy". Same girl as in National Treasure. Diane Heidkruger is her real name, a German actress. Listen to the accent.

[Ed Rotondaro]

She might have had face that made a train take a dirt road. I am sorry, but not all the queens looked like Diane Kruger in "Troy". Same girl as in National Treasure. Diane Heidkruger is her real name, a German actress. Listen to the accent.

Dennis:

That is too true about historical figures. Did you like the movie Troy?

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

That is too true about historical figures. Did you like the movie Troy?

Yes, it was fun to watch. Never heard a trojan with a german accent, though. But, with those looks and outfits, whose listening to the accent. :D:D

[Ed Rotondaro]

Yes, it was fun to watch. Never heard a trojan with a german accent, though. But, with those looks and outfits, whose listening to the accent. :D:D

Dennis:

She was easy on the eyes as they say. I thought Troy was a entertaining movie without being bogged down by history. I liked the characterization of Hector as noble and a tragic hero. The only Greek character to come off with dignity was Odysseus played by Sean Bean, one of my favorite character actors.

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

She was easy on the eyes as they say. I thought Troy was a entertaining movie without being bogged down by history. I liked the characterization of Hector as noble and a tragic hero. The only Greek character to come off with dignity was Odysseus played by Sean Bean, one of my favorite character actors.

I liked him in the series about Richard Sharpe in the Napoleonic Wars in Spain with Wellington.

[Ed Rotondaro]

I liked him in the series about Richard Sharpe in the Napoleonic Wars in Spain with Wellington.

Dennis:

I've heard good things about that series. I'm surprised that it hasn't turned up on a US station like Arts and Entertainment.