Friedman's "Naval Firepower"

[Mike Malanaphy]

HI Guys,

Spent the last four months going through Friedman's "Naval Firepower: Battleship Gunnery in the Dreadnought Era". I've been collecting baval books since I was 14 in the mid 60's. If I had to keep only one book, it would have been Friedman's "Battleship Design and Developement: 1906 to 1945". For those of you whom have read it, it's is the primer on battleships in layman's terms from machinery, armor, and armament. If you don't have a copy, it's worth gettting from the library or on the internet. You won't be disappointed.

Over the last couple of years, I have become interested in the mechanics of battleship gunnery and fire control. There is a lot of information out there spread among a number of good books, such as "Guns at Sea" by Peter Padfield, "In Defense of Naval Supremacy" by Jon Sumida, and John Brook's "Dreadnought Gunnery", but Friedman has put it all in one place for you.

Quite simply, Friedman has written an indispensable book on the subject. He succinctly and fully summarizes adavances in gunnery from tthe mid 1860s through 1945 and the fire control instruments and doctrine needed to obtain hits. In 14 chapters he covers the technical side, war experience, and indepth discussions of the fire control instruments of the RN, USN, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, and the Russians/Soviets. Primary coverage goes to the best documented navies, the RN and USN, but there is a wealth of knowledge on the others as well. Though chock full of data and facts, he writing style never bogs down though it took me a few rereads to understand some of the math (I'm still fuzzy on bearing versus range plotting), but most will have no problems. For those of you familiar with Friedman's works, his captions often contain more information than chapters in other authors' books and he doesn't disappoint here.. An interesting thread for post WW I gunnery was that Hazemeyer of Holland supplied much of the gunnery equipment to the Weimar Navy because of the Versailles Treaty. In turn, they got most of their expertise through Vickers. The French and Italians also bought euipment and the Italians passed some on to the Soviets. The Japanese of course used British equipment from the start.

I wish Friedman had explained how the system worked physically in an engagement in terms of inputs and corrections of had dissected actual engagements as they occurred as examples, but it detracts little from a book that is highly informative and is easy to understand.

If I had to narrow my collection down to two books, this and his "Battleship Design and Development" would be the two to keep. Get your copy from NWS without delay. : ) It costs about the same as a computer game, but wil be a lifelong refernence for most of us.

This an excellent site though I can't get the videos to work. http://dreadnoughtproject.org

[Warship NWS]

We have the book in stock right now;

NWS Store Listing for Naval Firepower (http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/nafibaguandg.html)

Thanks.

[Kyle Holgate]

HI Guys,

Spent the last four months going through Friedman's "Naval Firepower: Battleship Gunnery in the Dreadnought Era". I've been collecting baval books since I was 14 in the mid 60's. If I had to keep only one book, it would have been Friedman's "Battleship Design and Developement: 1906 to 1945". For those of you whom have read it, it's is the primer on battleships in layman's terms from machinery, armor, and armament. If you don't have a copy, it's worth gettting from the library or on the internet. You won't be disappointed.

Over the last couple of years, I have become interested in the mechanics of battleship gunnery and fire control. There is a lot of information out there spread among a number of good books, such as "Guns at Sea" by Peter Padfield, "In Defense of Naval Supremacy" by Jon Sumida, and John Brook's "Dreadnought Gunnery", but Friedman has put it all in one place for you.

Quite simply, Friedman has written an indispensable book on the subject. He succinctly and fully summarizes adavances in gunnery from tthe mid 1860s through 1945 and the fire control instruments and doctrine needed to obtain hits. In 14 chapters he covers the technical side, war experience, and indepth discussions of the fire control instruments of the RN, USN, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, and the Russians/Soviets. Primary coverage goes to the best documented navies, the RN and USN, but there is a wealth of knowledge on the others as well. Though chock full of data and facts, he writing style never bogs down though it took me a few rereads to understand some of the math (I'm still fuzzy on bearing versus range plotting), but most will have no problems. For those of you familiar with Friedman's works, his captions often contain more information than chapters in other authors' books and he doesn't disappoint here.. An interesting thread for post WW I gunnery was that Hazemeyer of Holland supplied much of the gunnery equipment to the Weimar Navy because of the Versailles Treaty. In turn, they got most of their expertise through Vickers. The French and Italians also bought euipment and the Italians passed some on to the Soviets. The Japanese of course used British equipment from the start.

I wish Friedman had explained how the system worked physically in an engagement in terms of inputs and corrections of had dissected actual engagements as they occurred as examples, but it detracts little from a book that is highly informative and is easy to understand.

If I had to narrow my collection down to two books, this and his "Battleship Design and Development" would be the two to keep. Get your copy from NWS without delay. : ) It costs about the same as a computer game, but wil be a lifelong refernence for most of us.

This an excellent site though I can't get the videos to work. http://dreadnoughtproject.org

I got this book last week and am still going through it. Great source but I wish it had some way to compare the various systems to get a sense of relative accuracy - how the various countries FC systems compared. I still have a lot to read (it's a bit dry to sit down and just read like a novel, even for a battleship geek like me!) and I have enjoyed it in any case!

[Mike Malanaphy]

I got this book last week and am still going through it. Great source but I wish it had some way to compare the various systems to get a sense of relative accuracy - how the various countries FC systems compared. I still have a lot to read (it's a bit dry to sit down and just read like a novel, even for a battleship geek like me!) and I have enjoyed it in any case!

Hi Kyle,

That would have been interesting, but there is little to compare foreign systems with as few of their components or operators exist. And there is limited combat experience. J had forgotten about how well Russian pre dreadnoughts had shot against the Goeben and others in WW I, but training and crew quality are imponderables too.

[Ed Rotondaro]

HI Guys,

Spent the last four months going through Friedman's "Naval Firepower: Battleship Gunnery in the Dreadnought Era". I've been collecting baval books since I was 14 in the mid 60's. If I had to keep only one book, it would have been Friedman's "Battleship Design and Developement: 1906 to 1945". For those of you whom have read it, it's is the primer on battleships in layman's terms from machinery, armor, and armament. If you don't have a copy, it's worth gettting from the library or on the internet. You won't be disappointed.

Over the last couple of years, I have become interested in the mechanics of battleship gunnery and fire control. There is a lot of information out there spread among a number of good books, such as "Guns at Sea" by Peter Padfield, "In Defense of Naval Supremacy" by Jon Sumida, and John Brook's "Dreadnought Gunnery", but Friedman has put it all in one place for you.

Quite simply, Friedman has written an indispensable book on the subject. He succinctly and fully summarizes adavances in gunnery from tthe mid 1860s through 1945 and the fire control instruments and doctrine needed to obtain hits. In 14 chapters he covers the technical side, war experience, and indepth discussions of the fire control instruments of the RN, USN, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, and the Russians/Soviets. Primary coverage goes to the best documented navies, the RN and USN, but there is a wealth of knowledge on the others as well. Though chock full of data and facts, he writing style never bogs down though it took me a few rereads to understand some of the math (I'm still fuzzy on bearing versus range plotting), but most will have no problems. For those of you familiar with Friedman's works, his captions often contain more information than chapters in other authors' books and he doesn't disappoint here.. An interesting thread for post WW I gunnery was that Hazemeyer of Holland supplied much of the gunnery equipment to the Weimar Navy because of the Versailles Treaty. In turn, they got most of their expertise through Vickers. The French and Italians also bought euipment and the Italians passed some on to the Soviets. The Japanese of course used British equipment from the start.

I wish Friedman had explained how the system worked physically in an engagement in terms of inputs and corrections of had dissected actual engagements as they occurred as examples, but it detracts little from a book that is highly informative and is easy to understand.

If I had to narrow my collection down to two books, this and his "Battleship Design and Development" would be the two to keep. Get your copy from NWS without delay. : ) It costs about the same as a computer game, but wil be a lifelong refernence for most of us.

This an excellent site though I can't get the videos to work. http://dreadnoughtproject.org

Mike:

Definitely a great book, but very dense reading in parts. I do like how Friedman brings in other variables such as ammunition and armor design. These systems were amazing complex and understanding them takes concentration and dedication. I'll be re-reading my copy many times.

[Mike Malanaphy]

Mike:

Definitely a great book, but very dense reading in parts. I do like how Friedman brings in other variables such as ammunition and armor design. These systems were amazing complex and understanding them takes concentration and dedication. I'll be re-reading my copy many times.

Hi Ed,

Yes, that's whay the book is such a tremnedous value. Brook's book was $90.00 (print on demand I believe) and it took me several years to find copies of Sumida and Padfield. Friedman's book covers much of the ground though Brooks would disagree wiht him about the credibility of Pollen's patent infringement claim and the Dreyer tables inabilty to handle a fast rate change. Brook's examine the battle cruiser action and compares firings between teh Dreyer equipped and the Argo equipped Princess Royal and faults poor training and Beatty's bad tactics rather than teh Dreyer table for the results. Now that you mention it, I thought his glossary was a little thin. I was looking for definitons of broadside and the variations of salvo fire.

Perhaps Dennis will help us with the math. :)

[old_pop2000]

Hi Ed,

Yes, that's whay the book is such a tremnedous value. Brook's book was $90.00 (print on demand I believe) and it took me several years to find copies of Sumida and Padfield. Friedman's book covers much of the ground though Brooks would disagree wiht him about the credibility of Pollen's patent infringement claim and the Dreyer tables inabilty to handle a fast rate change. Brook's examine the battle cruiser action and compares firings between teh Dreyer equipped and the Argo equipped Princess Royal and faults poor training and Beatty's bad tactics rather than teh Dreyer table for the results. Now that you mention it, I thought his glossary was a little thin. I was looking for definitons of broadside and the variations of salvo fire.

Perhaps Dennis will help us with the math. :)

Me!! Help with the math? What is this, the blind leading the blind? Sure, I'll help, I'll make myself look stupid. Probably have more senior moments.:p:D:D

[Ed Rotondaro]

Hi Ed,

Yes, that's whay the book is such a tremnedous value. Brook's book was $90.00 (print on demand I believe) and it took me several years to find copies of Sumida and Padfield. Friedman's book covers much of the ground though Brooks would disagree wiht him about the credibility of Pollen's patent infringement claim and the Dreyer tables inabilty to handle a fast rate change. Brook's examine the battle cruiser action and compares firings between teh Dreyer equipped and the Argo equipped Princess Royal and faults poor training and Beatty's bad tactics rather than teh Dreyer table for the results. Now that you mention it, I thought his glossary was a little thin. I was looking for definitons of broadside and the variations of salvo fire.

Perhaps Dennis will help us with the math. :)


Mike:

I think you can get a paperback version of Brook's book for somewhere in the $45.00 range. I have Padfield's book on Big Gun mountings, but that's more of an engineer's look at the mechanics of the mounts than a study of the guns themselves. Still it belongs in the serious naval nut's library. I have Friedman's book on battleship design and always wished he would revise it and have the Naval institute reprint it.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Me!! Help with the math? What is this, the blind leading the blind? Sure, I'll help, I'll make myself look stupid. Probably have more senior moments.:p:D:D

Dennis:

This the kind of stuff that William lives for. He's the only one outside of Nathan Okun who can handle the math (Chris can handle the tactics!).

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

This the kind of stuff that William lives for. He's the only one outside of Nathan Okun who can handle the math (Chris can handle the tactics!).


Wellll, thanks for that vote of confidence. But in fact, you're absolutely right. Heh! Heh!

[Ed Rotondaro]

Wellll, thanks for that vote of confidence. But in fact, you're absolutely right. Heh! Heh!


Dennis:

We leave the serious top down systems analysis to you, especially regarding aircraft.;)

[Mike Malanaphy]

Me!! Help with the math? What is this, the blind leading the blind? Sure, I'll help, I'll make myself look stupid. Probably have more senior moments.:p:D:D

Hi Dennis,

I was thinking of "Dennis" notes as opposed to "Cliff" notes or maybe just "Ballistics for Dummies".

[Warship NWS]

Dennis:

This the kind of stuff that William lives for. He's the only one outside of Nathan Okun who can handle the math (Chris can handle the tactics!).

Never said I could not handle "the math".. I just prefer tactics, battle analysis, and weapons systems/applications. ;)

WM is definitely good with complex math however, I think he would be bored if he was not doing multi-tiered equations in his head every waking moment. There is a good reason why I call him "Naval Spock". ;)

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

We leave the serious top down systems analysis to you, especially regarding aircraft.;)

That's me, always on top of things. Figuratively, speaking, of course. :D:D

[Warship NWS]

Hi Dennis,

I was thinking of "Dennis" notes as opposed to "Cliff" notes or maybe just "Ballistics for Dummies".

The catch here is that ballistics is only part of the overall effects of naval gunnery. Understanding the mechanics of chemicaly based explosives and the effects of blast fragmentation on a warship hull designed out of different thicknesses and combinations of metalurgy is another set of complex math considerations.

"Naval Firepower" gives a good idea of how naval gunnery and fire controls evolved through the industrialized age and some of the effects it had on the tactics of various naval engagements.

Thanks.

[Warship NWS]

A breakdown of general ballistics concepts,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistics_%28disambiguation%29

Thanks. ;)

[Ed Rotondaro]

Never said I could not handle "the math".. I just prefer tactics, battle analysis, and weapons systems/applications. ;)

WM is definitely good with complex math however, I think he would be bored if he was not doing multi-tiered equations in his head every waking moment. There is a good reason why I call him "Naval Spock". ;)


Chris:

It's good to have a hobby, yours is weapons and tactics, William's is calculations and mine is the people who use all this stuff and what they experienced.

[Warship NWS]

Chris:

It's good to have a hobby, yours is weapons and tactics, William's is calculations and mine is the people who use all this stuff and what they experienced.

That is why NWS is a team.. complex subjects such as naval warfare takes a team effort. No one person can know everything. ;)

[old_pop2000]

A breakdown of general ballistics concepts,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistics_%28disambiguation%29

Thanks. ;)

Here are some more:

http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/FC-ORDNANCE.html

http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/FIRE-CONTROL-PAGE.html

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/firecontrol/index.htm


http://www.hnsa.org/doc/br224/index.htm


http://www.hnsa.org/doc/afcc/index.htm


http://www.hnsa.org/doc/op1140/index.htm

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/destroyer/ddfc/index.htm


http://www.hnsa.org/doc/#nstm - Main page for these and more.

Y'h've fun, Laddies!!

[Ed Rotondaro]

That is why NWS is a team.. complex subjects such as naval warfare takes a team effort. No one person can know everything. ;)

Chris:

Nor can they afford all the books even with discounts LOL!

[Ed Rotondaro]

Here are some more:

http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/FC-ORDNANCE.html

http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/FIRE-CONTROL-PAGE.html

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/firecontrol/index.htm


http://www.hnsa.org/doc/br224/index.htm


http://www.hnsa.org/doc/afcc/index.htm


http://www.hnsa.org/doc/op1140/index.htm

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/destroyer/ddfc/index.htm


http://www.hnsa.org/doc/#nstm - Main page for these and more.

Y'h've fun, Laddies!!

Dennis:

Slover's stuff is generally pretty good.

[Warship NWS]

Chris:

Nor can they afford all the books even with discounts LOL!

You cannot count on books for everything my friend. ;)

[old_pop2000]

You cannot count on books for everything my friend. ;)


So true, so true. There always the fickle finger of fate factor, so prevalent in probabilistic endeavors.

I shot an arrow, into the sky,
it fell to earth, I know just where.
Although I shot at a deer afar,
I pierced the radiator of my car.:D:D:p