Another Brain Teaser.

[djcyclone]

Okay I have something for everyone too chew on. After our latest discussions on pacifism in the other forums, I have been wondering a couple of things.

First, Lets say that the United Kingdom actualy took Ghandi's advice and made offers to Germany for peace. Remember that the information on the Hollacost had not come out yet, so no one know's what is going on. Lets put the year at around 1943 so Germany knows they are losing, and chances of them coming back are slim. They are getting their butts kicked in multiple theaters. Africa is a long lost hope, and Italy has now been invaded so that is one ally that is on the verge of collapse.

Do any of you think that Germany would have considered this, and possibly taken the offer? Even if they had been allowed to keep all of the territory already conqured like France and Poland. I doubt it, but I was just wondering what all you historians thought. Another question, is would Stallen have been willing to back off if the United Kingdom and U.S. signed a cease fire with Germany? Again I doubt it, but who knows.



Second, what if the U.S. had offered peace in the Pacific after we defeated the Japs at say Midway. I chose Midway because we did not have reliable info on the Atomic Bomb yet, so this makes this the best time for a cease fire to be offered. Once the Atomic bomb was invented our curiousity would have never allowed for a cease fire. Remember Japan expected the U.S. to drop out after the bulk of our surface fleet was lost at Pearl. They never intended on a long term war, so would they have saw the loss at Midway as an excuse to take what they had gained and run?

Just another what if in the endless galaxy of what if's. Enjoy.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Okay I have something for everyone too chew on. After our latest discussions on pacifism in the other forums, I have been wondering a couple of things.

First, Lets say that the United Kingdom actualy took Ghandi's advice and made offers to Germany for peace. Remember that the information on the Hollacost had not come out yet, so no one know's what is going on. Lets put the year at around 1943 so Germany knows they are losing, and chances of them coming back are slim. They are getting their butts kicked in multiple theaters. Africa is a long lost hope, and Italy has now been invaded so that is one ally that is on the verge of collapse.

Do any of you think that Germany would have considered this, and possibly taken the offer? Even if they had been allowed to keep all of the territory already conqured like France and Poland. I doubt it, but I was just wondering what all you historians thought. Another question, is would Stallen have been willing to back off if the United Kingdom and U.S. signed a cease fire with Germany? Again I doubt it, but who knows.



Second, what if the U.S. had offered peace in the Pacific after we defeated the Japs at say Midway. I chose Midway because we did not have reliable info on the Atomic Bomb yet, so this makes this the best time for a cease fire to be offered. Once the Atomic bomb was invented our curiousity would have never allowed for a cease fire. Remember Japan expected the U.S. to drop out after the bulk of our surface fleet was lost at Pearl. They never intended on a long term war, so would they have saw the loss at Midway as an excuse to take what they had gained and run?

Just another what if in the endless galaxy of what if's. Enjoy.

DJ:

With Japan what sort terms are imagining that the US would have offered after Midway? Obviously the US wants all its territories back and Japan doesn't really want any of those, she wants the Dutch East Indies, Malaysia, etc. If the US merely asks for its territories back, Japan would have jumped at that offer since she didn't want a long term war with the US. If the US insists on Japan returning to the status quo and withdrawing from all the British, French and Dutch colonial possessions, Japan would of course refuse, she went to war for a reason and at this stage of the game can certainly defend what she has seized.

By 1943, the Allies are not going to offer peace terms to Germany under any circumstances. The US is just getting into high gear and the desire for unconditional surrender has been publicly stated. There is no way Britain could even consider letting Germany retain any conquered territory, not after helping set up governments in exile to keep resistance going. As a side note, Stalin made back channel offers to Germany for a separate peace in 1942 that would have allowed Germany to retain the Ukraine and certain other parts of Russia. Hitler rejected it. Think how his acceptance might have altered the course of the war.

[thevanderploegs]

Ed,
I'd never heard that about Stalin and Hitler before. Very interesting....

Regards,
Gary

[Ed Rotondaro]

Ed,
I'd never heard that about Stalin and Hitler before. Very interesting....

Regards,
Gary

Hi Gary:

It has come up a few times on other threads, but I don't know what the source is for this and would love to explore it in more detail. In the course of some other reading, I found out that in late 1942, Russia was dangerously low on tanks and was forced to use US and British designs, at least on some of the more quieter portions of the front due to the need to hoard the T-34s for the more active areas. It is possible that Pre-Stalingrad, Comrade Stalin might have begun to believe that he could not stop the Germans and wanted to cut his losses. I wonder if he would have sacrificed Soviet Georgia, his homeland, to gain time to rebuild?