Air combat trivia,

[Warship NWS]

Who was the first ace to use the tactic of firing a fighter forward gun upwards at a target (name the pilot, plane, mounting, and weapon used)?

[Warship NWS]

No one wants to take a crack at this one? ;)

[ksf1973]

Albert Ball, Sopwith Dolphin, cross tube mounting with twin Lewis guns for use against Zeppelins.

[Warship NWS]

Albert Ball, Sopwith Dolphin, cross tube mounting with twin Lewis guns for use against Zeppelins.

Correct ace and gun.. but not the mounting and plane I was looking for. ;)

[ksf1973]

Then it's a Nieuport 17 with a Foster Mounting for the Lewis gun.

[Warship NWS]

Then it's a Nieuport 17 with a Foster Mounting for the Lewis gun.

Close enough.. he actually started out in Nieuport 11s which was one of the first aircraft to use the "Foster" mounting in May 1916 before he started flying the Nieuport 17s in August. His favored tactic was to fire the Lewis gun upwards into the belly of his targets since the mounting allowed for tilting to aid in reloading the gun. Interesting gun feature that brought about an unforeseen lethal tactic - someone was thinking outside the box.

Now what was the side effect of the "Foster" mounting other then just firing outside the propeller arc?

Thanks.

[old_pop2000]

Close enough.. he actually started out in Nieuport 11s which was one of the first aircraft to use the "Foster" mounting in May 1916 before he started flying the Nieuport 17s in August. His favored tactic was to fire the Lewis gun upwards into the belly of his targets since the mounting allowed for tilting to aid in reloading the gun. Interesting gun feature that brought about an unforeseen lethal tactic - someone was thinking outside the box.

Now what was the side effect of the "Foster" mounting other then just firing outside the propeller arc?

Thanks.
It allowed night fighters to shoot at observation planes, bombers and zeppelin. It was the presage to the schrage musik of WWII. It also eliminated synchronizing, which gave the guns higher rates of fire.

[Warship NWS]

It allowed night fighters to shoot at observation planes, bombers and zeppelin. It was the presage to the schrage musik of WWII. It also eliminated synchronizing, which gave the guns higher rates of fire.

Those are features.. not side effects..;)

[old_pop2000]

In 1942, after Midway, a Japanese Zero was discovered on Akutan Island. It was brought to NAS North Island and repaired. What part could not be fixed, and how did they eventually remedy the problem? Also, who was the original Japanese manufacturer of the part?:D

This is so simple, I am embarrassed to put it up here.

[Warship NWS]

Now what was the side effect of the "Foster" Lewis mounting other then just firing outside the propeller arc?

Any takers?

[ksf1973]

No idea... All the spent cartridge casings landed on the pilot?

[djcyclone]

Pilot can accidently fire gun while gun is in full upright position thus damaging his own plane???

[old_pop2000]

Close enough.. he actually started out in Nieuport 11s which was one of the first aircraft to use the "Foster" mounting in May 1916 before he started flying the Nieuport 17s in August. His favored tactic was to fire the Lewis gun upwards into the belly of his targets since the mounting allowed for tilting to aid in reloading the gun. Interesting gun feature that brought about an unforeseen lethal tactic - someone was thinking outside the box.

Now what was the side effect of the "Foster" mounting other then just firing outside the propeller arc?

Thanks.
Side effect - any adverse and unwanted secondary effect

Based on that definition, the 28 pound Lewis gun, sitting on top of the wing increased drag on the aircraft, placed a heavy weight above the center of thrust on the aircraft thereby causing unwanted directional problems. The firing of the weapon also created assymetric thrust increasing control issues.

However, the installation of the gun on the top wing, did allow the use of the tractor type aircraft as opposed to the pusher type which was far less efficient in the air. It also allowed Allied aircraft to have two machine guns. The Sopwith kauper synchronizer used early in the war, could only sync one gun, whereas the Fokker synchronizer could sync two. With the foster mount, Allied aircraft could not use two guns and have equal firepower.

[Warship NWS]

Ok.. the answer I was looking for was this.. the Foster mount allowed the Lewis LMG to be mounted on various aircraft that would otherwise not be able to carry an MG, example the Nieuport 11, or added firepower, example the SE5a, but a side effect was the reduced stability and increased vibration of the gun due to its location on the top of the wing which caused a greater dispersion of bullets when fired thus reducing overall accuracy compared to guns mounted on the fuselage. Guns mounted on the fuselage were also easier to aim due to not having the bullet stream offset by the mounting arrangement as WW1 aircraft had very simplistic, if any, gun sights.

Thanks.

[old_pop2000]

;):)
Ok.. the answer I was looking for was this.. the Foster mount allowed the Lewis LMG to be mounted on various aircraft that would otherwise not be able to carry an MG, example the Nieuport 11, or added firepower, example the SE5a, but a side effect was the reduced stability and increased vibration of the gun due to its location on the top of the wing which caused a greater dispersion of bullets when fired thus reducing overall accuracy compared to guns mounted on the fuselage. Guns mounted on the fuselage were also easier to aim due to not having the bullet stream offset by the mounting arrangement as WW1 aircraft had very simplistic, if any, gun sights.

Thanks.
I won't make an issue of that, except that the foster mount was not the only mount available, there were two tripod mounts that could be and were used, but the Foster was the best and allowed for replacement of the 47 round magazine. However, in Cross and Cockade magazine years ago, I did read that most pilots never reloaded as it was to hard to return the gun to the fixed position in the air stream.

Can you tell me why the Lewis gun was the preferred weapon on the Foster mount? There is a specific reason why the lewis gun was used. Many of you weapons types should know this answer.;):) Weight is one, but that is not the primary reason.

[ksf1973]

Ease of reload?

[old_pop2000]

Ease of reload?
No, ease of loading was not a factor. Up on the wing, no matter what gun was used, it was hard to load and return the gun to its firing position. Attempt to move a 25 pound gun without the 47 round magazine, while moving at 90 to 100 miles per hour in the forward direction while being shot at by the enemy, is a difficult proposition.

[Warship NWS]

A quick note.. the 47 round magazine for the Lewis Gun was used for ground troops due to the lighter weight of the magazine - thus making it more man portable, and it helped to keep the gun cleaner as the 97 round magazine proved too problematic for ground combat conditions. The 97 round magazine was used almost exclusively for aircraft. Changing out a magazine every 47 rounds would have proved impractical in air combat as that would have been only 5 seconds of firing time per reload, the 97 round magazine allowed for 11 seconds. On average aircraft carried 4-5 magazines.

Thanks.

[Warship NWS]

;):)
Can you tell me why the Lewis gun was the preferred weapon on the Foster mount? There is a specific reason why the lewis gun was used. Many of you weapons types should know this answer.;):) Weight is one, but that is not the primary reason.

The Lewis gun had to be fired outside the propeller arc due to its open bolt design which made it impossible to use with the synchronization system.

Thanks.

[Warship NWS]

I won't make an issue of that, except that the foster mount was not the only mount available, there were two tripod mounts that could be and were used, but the Foster was the best and allowed for replacement of the 47 round magazine. However, in Cross and Cockade magazine years ago, I did read that most pilots never reloaded as it was to hard to return the gun to the fixed position in the air stream.


They used the 97 round magazine not the 47 round - I just noted this in a previous reply. As to reloading, they could but it was a problem during combat - example, heavy maneuvering during reloading was almost out of the question. However, since the aircraft primarily armed with these guns were fighting EIIIs or recon planes this was not a major hindrance. The Vickers was definitely the way to go in any event due to its belt fed ammo and ability to be synchronized with the propeller starting with the Spad 7, Pup, etc. However, I would remind everyone that it was primely Lewis gun armed aircraft that brought an end to the Fokker Scourge, the EIII was armed with a belt fed Spandau in comparison, along with the use of squadron tactics and their superior maneuverability compared to the "wing warpers".

Thanks.

[old_pop2000]

They used the 97 round magazine not the 47 round - I just noted this in a previous reply. As to reloading, they could but it was a problem during combat - example, heavy maneuvering during reloading was almost out of the question. However, since the aircraft primarily armed with these guns were fighting EIIIs or recon planes this was not a major hindrance. The Vickers was definitely the way to go in any event due to its belt fed ammo and ability to be synchronized with the propeller starting with the Spad 7, Pup, etc. However, I would remind everyone that it was primely Lewis gun armed aircraft that brought an end to the Fokker Scourge, the EIII was armed with a belt fed Spandau in comparison, along with the use of squadron tactics and their superior maneuverability compared to the "wing warpers".

Thanks.
The 97 round magazine was not developed until the advent of the Mark 2 gun in 1915. This gun had the cooling fins and jacket removed and a strengthened gas cylinder. It also had the spade grip instead of the butt stock. In 1916, the 97 round magazine was introduced for the aviators. The gas ports were enlarged to allow for an increased rate of fire-800 versus 550. The Mark 3 was a totally new gun with all the mods in place from the manufacturer. One of the main reasons for using the Lewis, along with weight savings, was the open bolt was not susceptable to cookoff, whereas the Vicker's, being a maxim was. This is a major headache for aircraft in combat, especially with the gun on the top of the wing. But weight, especially in the early 1914-1915 era aircraft was important. Both the 47 and 97 round mags had a problem of being open at the bottom and making them susceptable to dirt and fouling.

[Warship NWS]

As I noted, the DH2 and Nieuport 11 were the primary fighters that ended the Fokker scourge of 1915, both entered combat in 1916.. the same time the Lewis was being used as a primary fighter weapon and was armed with the 97 round ammo pans. ;)

[asnrobert]

I recall reading about a pilot named Roderick Dallas who flew a Nieuport 11 and who would fly under bombers and shoot them with his Lewis gun.

[djcyclone]

Here is a couple of questions for you too chew on.

Who was the first ACE in the Pacific Theater during WW II?
What Airport is named after him?
Where is the Airport located?
Why is the Airport located in this City?
What action gained this pilot the title of first ACE?
What is so significant about the City where this guy grew up, and what other thing is this guy well known for, pertaining to his father?

These are all different questions and I wish you the best of luck with them.
How did this pilot die?

P.S. I do not even know the answer to the last question, so I am actualy asking you guys. I know he died in a dog fight, but that is it.

[old_pop2000]

Here is a couple of questions for you too chew on.

Who was the first ACE in the Pacific Theater during WW II?
What Airport is named after him?
Where is the Airport located?
Why is the Airport located in this City?
What action gained this pilot the title of first ACE?
What is so significant about the City where this guy grew up, and what other thing is this guy well known for, pertaining to his father?

These are all different questions and I wish you the best of luck with them.
How did this pilot die?

P.S. I do not even know the answer to the last question, so I am actualy asking you guys. I know he died in a dog fight, but that is it.

Well, I will give them a try.

1. Edward Butch O'Hare - Flying off of the Lexington in VF-3

2. O'Hare International Airport

3. Chicago, Illinois - Actually at Orchard Field

4. O'Hare grew up on the South side of Chicago.

5. Battle off of Bougainville during a raid by Enterprise and Lexington. O'Hare and his wingman Dufilho were launched on a second CAP to intercept the 1st Chutai of eight Rikko's led by Lt. Cmd. Ito. O'Hare was credited with five bombers.

6. His father Eddie O'Hare was a lawyer and friend of Alfonse Capone who brought him into the Hawthorne Kennel Club. Dog racing and betting was illegal. O'Hare also beat out the widow of the inventor of the mechanical rabbit that dogs chase after the inventor died, for the money.

http://www.ipsn.org/ohare.html

First Team, Lundstrom


:rolleyes:

[djcyclone]

So where did he die at?

All the other stuff was correct. Except I do not recall O'Hare having a wing man when he recieved his title of ace.

The story I know of was that during a raid, O'Hare launched with his squadron, and after launch realized that his plane had not been fueled up completley. After reporting this information to his commander, he was ordered back to base because he did not have enough fuel to finish the mission and return home also. On the way back to the carrier he spotted a squadron of Japanese bombers on an attack run. He knew that he could not land, refuel and then take off again in time, so he launched a single plane attack on the bombers. After he ran out of ammunition he attempted to ram the bombers in hopes of damaging them enough that they would disengage. The Japanese where so confused at the attack that they withdrew.

As for his father, he was the primary defense attorney for Al Copone. It was his son that caused him to change his mind. He was concerned that is son would grow up to be just as bad as Al Copone. His father had gotten Al Copone off the hook everytime he got into trouble. Because of his son, O'Hare Senior decided to turn State's Evidence and was later gunned down in the street for his treachury.

[old_pop2000]

So where did he die at?

All the other stuff was correct. Except I do not recall O'Hare having a wing man when he recieved his title of ace.

The story I know of was that during a raid, O'Hare launched with his squadron, and after launch realized that his plane had not been fueled up completley. After reporting this information to his commander, he was ordered back to base because he did not have enough fuel to finish the mission and return home also. On the way back to the carrier he spotted a squadron of Japanese bombers on an attack run. He knew that he could not land, refuel and then take off again in time, so he launched a single plane attack on the bombers. After he ran out of ammunition he attempted to ram the bombers in hopes of damaging them enough that they would disengage. The Japanese where so confused at the attack that they withdrew.

As for his father, he was the primary defense attorney for Al Copone. It was his son that caused him to change his mind. He was concerned that is son would grow up to be just as bad as Al Copone. His father had gotten Al Copone off the hook everytime he got into trouble. Because of his son, O'Hare Senior decided to turn State's Evidence and was later gunned down in the street for his treachury.
He did have a wingman, who launched with him but only got credit for a half. O'Hare was lost in one of the night intercepts with a radar equipped TBF Avenger. He may have been a victim of friendly fire when an enemy aircraft slipped in behind Butch, and the Avenger shot but hit Butch instead.

[djcyclone]

He did have a wingman, who launched with him but only got credit for a half. O'Hare was lost in one of the night intercepts with a radar equipped TBF Avenger. He may have been a victim of friendly fire when an enemy aircraft slipped in behind Butch, and the Avenger shot but hit Butch instead.



That sucks, but I will take your word on it. Now try my other Trivia question.:D
C'mon don't be scared.

[old_pop2000]

That sucks, but I will take your word on it. Now try my other Trivia question.:D
C'mon don't be scared.
O'Hare's downing was located at 1 degree 26' North Latitude, 171 degrees 56 minutes east longitude by the Avenger pilot, Lt. Commander Phillips.

That would put him, 79.6 miles west of Bonriki Atoll.

Bonriki Atoll is located at Lat 1° 22' N Long 173° 9' E , at the eastern tip of the Tarawa atoll.

Is that the answer you were looking for?:D:D

[djcyclone]

O'Hare's downing was located at 1 degree 26' North Latitude, 171 degrees 56 minutes east longitude by the Avenger pilot, Lt. Commander Phillips.

That would put him, 79.6 miles west of Bonriki Atoll.

Bonriki Atoll is located at Lat 1° 22' N Long 173° 9' E , at the eastern tip of the Tarawa atoll.

Is that the answer you were looking for?:D:D




No,No,No. I am talking about the Triva Question Thread started by Ed. I put another question in there.

[old_pop2000]

What was the first aircraft that a spitfire ever shot down?

Boy, that is so simple. Everyone is going to get that.

[ksf1973]

Hurricane.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Hurricane.

Kristian:

I imagine there must be a story behind this?

[ksf1973]

Far as I could find, the Spitfire's combat debut was on 9/6/39, when Spitfires of 74 Squadron shot down two enemy fighters over southeastern England. Unfortunately, the "enemy fighters" were two Hawker Hurricanes of 56 Squadron.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Far as I could find, the Spitfire's combat debut was on 9/6/39, when Spitfires of 74 Squadron shot down two enemy fighters over southeastern England. Unfortunately, the "enemy fighters" were two Hawker Hurricanes of 56 Squadron.

Kristian:

Friendly fire isn't. Thanks for the details.

[old_pop2000]

The battle has been called "The Battle of Barking CreeK". It occurred on the third day of the war and resulted in the first death of a British fighter pilot. He had taken off from North Weald.

From the North Weald Air Museum:


After an early morning air raid alert a squadron of Hurricanes took of from North Weald. These were followed by two reserve Hurricanes. But something went terribly wrong. The two reserves were identified as enemy aircraft and Spitfires from Hornchurch were ordered to attack them. Both were shot down. Montague Hulton-Harrop was killed, the other pilot, Frank Rose, survived. The pilot who fired the fatal shot was John Freeborn. The exact story of what happened in the "Battle of Barking Creek" may never be known. Even the origin of the name is obscure, as it did not take place above Barking Creek

[old_pop2000]

Sounds to me more like a problem of aircraft recognition and poor command and control.

[old_pop2000]

Kristian:

Friendly fire isn't. Thanks for the details.
That's the real problem with fire and forget air to air missiles. You fire, they forget.

[Ed Rotondaro]

That's the real problem with fire and forget air to air missiles. You fire, they forget.


Dennis:

I would laugh, except that is sadly too true. Good post.