Question about IL-2

[Saffron]

Hey folks,

My fiance and I are thinking about getting the IL-2 Sturmovik game, but we're not sure which one is the core game. Is it IL-2 1946?

Also, neither of us are very knowledgeable about flight sims. How hard are the planes to fly? In other words, can they be flown with a keyboard and mouse or do you need things like rudder pedals, a joy stick and things like that? Also, does the game have a flight tutorial?

Thanks,
Saff

[asnrobert]

I bought mine a couple years ago. It was a two CD set called Forgotten Battles Gold Pack. They probably have a different version out now.

You can play the game with keyboard and mouse, but it is very difficult. I would strongly recommend getting a joystick (a half-way decent one costs around $30-40).

The tutorials in this game aren't much help- they're basically videos that show and tell you what you are supposed to do (for takeoffs, landings, bombings, etc) but they ought to have tutorials where they give you instructions as you fly the plane.

However, flying the planes in IL-2 can be as easy or as hard as you want. You can have very simple flight characteristics (including doing away with take-offs and landings on missions), or very detailed and realistic characteristics, such as propeller torque, radiator and fuel mixture settings, spins, etc.

I would recommend turning off most of the realism factors at first and just start playing around with it, adding more realism as you feel comfortable.

[Mart]

Hey folks,

My fiance and I are thinking about getting the IL-2 Sturmovik game, but we're not sure which one is the core game. Is it IL-2 1946?

Also, neither of us are very knowledgeable about flight sims. How hard are the planes to fly? In other words, can they be flown with a keyboard and mouse or do you need things like rudder pedals, a joy stick and things like that? Also, does the game have a flight tutorial?

Thanks,
Saff

I'm fairly certain that IL-2 1946 is the definitive version. It comprises IL2 Forgotten Battles, the Aces Over Europe Expansion pack, and Pacific War. It also includes later, smaller releases which had only been available by download, late in the series, and finally includes elements which can only be found on the 1946 DVD itself, including, I believe, some very good extra maps. There is a good range of user mods, missions and campaigns, but I'm as sure as I can be, that the final definitive official release of the whole series is the 1946 DVD.

Hope that helps. You certainly get a lot of simulation on one DVD.

Martin :)

[Scott Chisholm]

Hi,

I'm not a flight sim fan, but I really liked IL-2. Be warned: it's a performance hog extraordinaire! I quit playing the game due to my AMD Athelon 1800+ with 1Gb of memory couldn't keep up.

You can tone down most of the reality settings to make the game very easy to play, or kick it up to where it would give a seasoned pilot a hard time.

The 1946 version is the one you want.

[old_pop2000]

I have the original and the forgotten battles gold pack. I use a Logitech Freedom 2.4 wireless flight stick with yaw control. You twist the control and it controls the yaw. It also has a throttle and eight buttons with a HAT. I like wireless because you can place it anywhere that is comfortable to fly. I've found that IL-2 seems to have problesm trimming the aircraft.

[Mart]

IL2 is considered to be about the best WW2 flight sim out there. It has a wide range of difficulty levels, so you can tailor it to your needs. If you are a real fan, you can also get inexpensive (one is even free) programs which have good profiles for giving voice commands to the game, taking the load off your keyboard and joystick memory skills, and you can also buy a nifty piece of kit that allows you to control where you are looking, simply by moving your head. In other words, instead of using the joystick hat to change your view, you just "look".

As the series progressed the company retro-fitted some improvements into the earlier games in the series. That meant that the planes, of all the games, gradually got more and more realistic flight models, which, as I recall, are known as 1% flight models. The thing about this is that a very accurate flight model is a CPU power hog. The other thing is that as the flight models got more realistic, the planes would get harder to fly. Flying a propeller aircraft was flipping hard, and this gradually showed through in the simulation. If you have the settings set at anything above the simplest levels, then constant trimming of the aircraft is just a fact of life, as it reflects what really happened.

The good news is that you can set all these flight model settings to easy, and have none of the control problems at all.

I hope that helps. I only know this as I "dabbled" for a while, but eventually decided flight sims weren't really for me.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Martin :)

[Saffron]

Hey folks,

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about flight sims can give me a hand.

I've been fiddling with IL-2 and ran into a rather strange problem. The long and short of it is: I can't seem to get any aircraft to climb. Pulling back on the stick and putting the throttle at full power results in my plane flying level with its nose in the air. I can't even participate in higher altitude fights because I can't climb high enough. Sometimes I can climb for a short distance, then the plane seems to level out on its own and I can't climb any higher ... except an occasional 10m increase. This happens even at lower altitudes. Usually I just end up "low and slow" the whole fight and I can't figure out the trick. Any ideas?

[Mart]

Hey folks,

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about flight sims can give me a hand.



Saffron,

I think I am sufficiently knowledgeable about IL2 that you can trust that a it's flight model will make it feel significantly different from other flight sims you may have played. At one point even the most experienced Oleg Maddox vets were saying how the new flight models were making the planes extremely difficult to fly, especially the Russian planes. Their was a ot of discussion about whether the newer models were accurate. Oleg did do some subsequent tweaks, but basically had to say that it was a choice between easy-to-fly planes, and accurate-to-fly planes. There are many IL2 websites where you can get expert help on the game and on any problems you may have in calibrating your equipment.

The information I gave you is accurate, even if it does not solve the problem you appear to be experiencing. If you find "someone more knowledgeable" they will give you the same information about the flight model as I gave you. I was also trying to be "measured" in how I responded, as I actually do own the 1946 DVD and know that it IS the final "official" release, all other missions and campaigns being contributed, and available, via fan websites, to which I suggest you pay a visit. 1946 does, incidentally, contain the final definitive version of the IL2 Forgotten Battles game. If you want a simpler, less CPU intensive. easier-to-fly game, IL2 Sturmovik (the game before IL2 Forgotten Battles, can still be picked up for just a few quid.

I hate to remind you, but your initial post, to which I replied, simply said


"Hey folks,

My fiance and I are thinking about getting the IL-2 Sturmovik game, but we're not sure which one is the core game. Is it IL-2 1946?

Also, neither of us are very knowledgeable about flight sims. How hard are the planes to fly? In other words, can they be flown with a keyboard and mouse or do you need things like rudder pedals, a joy stick and things like that? Also, does the game have a flight tutorial?

Thanks,
Saff"


I was trying to be generous, and answer at the level which seemed to match the way the questions were asked. I'm sorry I did not give you the answer you wanted to hear.

Martin

[Saffron]

Hey Mart:

When I said "more knowledgeable" ... I wasn't implying that you weren't knowledgeable. I guess that was a poor choice of words. When I said "more knowledgeable" I meant "more knowledgeable" than I am, not "more knowledgeable" than the previous posters. Sorry for the confusion.

Therefore, any help you're willing to share is welcomed.

A few things about how I'm playing:

I'm playing with all the difficulty settings turned off (the easiest settings). I think the only thing I have turned on is vulnerability. I need to understand the basics of flying before I jump in to head shaking, stalls, engine overheating, fuel mixtures, and such.

I'm not using a joystick yet. Just the keyboard. I didn't want to invest in any flight sim accessories until I played the game.

For the climbing issue, it's something I'm not doing right ... I just don't know what it is. There doesn't seem to be any settings that makes the basics of flying easier, such as auto-trim and things of that nature.

[Kyle Holgate]

Hey Mart:

When I said "more knowledgeable" ... I wasn't implying that you weren't knowledgeable. I guess that was a poor choice of words. When I said "more knowledgeable" I meant "more knowledgeable" than I am, not "more knowledgeable" than the previous posters. Sorry for the confusion.

Therefore, any help you're willing to share is welcomed.

A few things about how I'm playing:

I'm playing with all the difficulty settings turned off (the easiest settings). I think the only thing I have turned on is vulnerability. I need to understand the basics of flying before I jump in to head shaking, stalls, engine overheating, fuel mixtures, and such.

I'm not using a joystick yet. Just the keyboard. I didn't want to invest in any flight sim accessories until I played the game.

For the climbing issue, it's something I'm not doing right ... I just don't know what it is. There doesn't seem to be any settings that makes the basics of flying easier, such as auto-trim and things of that nature.


One question you may be able to answer (or someone else) - are enemy pilots impossibly aware in IL2 like they seem to be in MS combat FS? In FS you can never bounce even a green pilot - even coming up from below and what should be out of sight. They always somehow know you're there - and while it's fun to dogfight I find it unrealistic to be unable to do surprise attack type moves!

[old_pop2000]

One question you may be able to answer (or someone else) - are enemy pilots impossibly aware in IL2 like they seem to be in MS combat FS? In FS you can never bounce even a green pilot - even coming up from below and what should be out of sight. They always somehow know you're there - and while it's fun to dogfight I find it unrealistic to be unable to do surprise attack type moves!


The IL-2 Sturmovik in the game, probably has the rear gunner. It is often impossible to bounce an aircraft with a rear gunner. The best way to hit an aircraft with a rear gunner, is to dive, gain speed then pull up and hit them in the belly. The IL-2 had belly armour around the engine, and underneath the cockpit. It was a difficult plane to kill. However, it was only 6mm in thickness, which means the 8 mm MG of the 109's and FW's could penetrate it easily. You can also try a full deflection shot from the beam, but that requires some real skill to correctly aim the stream, you need to practice that firing position. DO NOT attack from high and from about 30 degrees either side of the tail, that rear gunner will get you. If they are in formation, everyone will shoot at you.

Remember, fire in short bursts, not long bursts. Also, check six, to ensure you are not being bounced by another aircraft. Never, repeat never fly straight and level in the combat zone for more than 30 seconds. Turn into an attacking aircraft and remember that your rudder can help you avoid an incoming enemy and keep you in the fight. Stay offensive, not defensive.

[William Miller]

Hey Mart:

A few things about how I'm playing:

I'm playing with all the difficulty settings turned off (the easiest settings). I think the only thing I have turned on is vulnerability. I need to understand the basics of flying before I jump in to head shaking, stalls, engine overheating, fuel mixtures, and such.

I'm not using a joystick yet. Just the keyboard. I didn't want to invest in any flight sim accessories until I played the game.

For the climbing issue, it's something I'm not doing right ... I just don't know what it is. There doesn't seem to be any settings that makes the basics of flying easier, such as auto-trim and things of that nature.

Saffron,

I've played flight sims since 1982, and virtually every one was far easier to play using a good joystick than using the mouse/keyboard. I have also played IL2 1946, and I will say it should be a requirement to have a decent joystick with the game. Believe me, it will be much more enjoyable (and easier) playing with a decent joystick than using the keyboard.

There are some decent joysticks that can be had for reasonable prices -- one joystick I own is a Logitech Extreme3D Pro, which while not one of the more hi-end sticks is still a good one. You can pick up this stick for 20-25$ at some places online.

[old_pop2000]

Saffron,

I've played flight sims since 1982, and virtually every one was far easier to play using a good joystick than using the mouse/keyboard. I have also played IL2 1946, and I will say it should be a requirement to have a decent joystick with the game. Believe me, it will be much more enjoyable (and easier) playing with a decent joystick than using the keyboard.

There are some decent joysticks that can be had for reasonable prices -- one joystick I own is a Logitech Extreme3D Pro, which while not one of the more hi-end sticks is still a good one. You can pick up this stick for 20-25$ at some places online.


Absolutely, and Logitech makes some good joysticks. I like wireless because of the flexibility but even USB flight sticks are nice. Unless you fly modern sophisticated jet sims, you don't need all the buttons. Just a good stick, throttle control, one or two buttons and the ability to yaw the plane by twisting the joystick. It takes some getting used to and coordination, but it works.

My first flight sim was Jet using Dos 2.0 on an 8080 PC. Y'know, back in the stone ages of computers. Of course, the most sophisticated one was the graphics sim used by engineering for aircraft accident investigation. They took the flight data and it would recreate the flight, then they could modify flight parameters to find out what went wrong.

[Warship NWS]

CH Products makes some of the best joysticks out there IMHO.. I have yet to have one fail after many years of use.

[Mart]

Hi Saffron

No problem friend. Just a misunderstanding. The AI in the final version of IL-2 is pretty vicious. As regards the IL2 as a plane, it is a bit of a heap, requiring constant trimming (which is why a rudder or twisting joystick is a necessity). On the actual software side, it's worth thinking about the Battle of Britain, and why it was essential that the RAF never pursued the "Big Wing" ideas of Douglas Bader (though I have a feeling that they may have been employed succesfully on the final, biggest, air battle, when the British knew well in advance where the Luftwaffe were coming from and when). The thing about those planes is that they just took a lifetime to get to a high altitude. The IL2 was no Spitfire and will need two lifetimes if you wanted to take it to that height (which you wouldn't really want to. given it's role)!

On joysticks, the main ones used by enthusiasts are very expensive, and though they argue about which is best, CH Products seem to come out on top most of the time. But if you were to buy a Joystick, Throttle and Rudder pedals, be prepared to part with half a month's salary! I have tried the set up and there is an odd problem with it, for people like me. The action of the equipment is extraordinarily smooth and just oozes quality. But if you get one of the two more expensive joysticks, bear in mind that they are not easy to use for people with small hands. In addition, your desk set-up will have to be such that you can have the joystick fairly low down. Trying to get your mitts round it, and reach all the buttons can be difficult if it's at normal desk height.

The preferred compromise HOTAS (Hands on Throttle and Stick) is probably the Saitek X-52 which costs about £90 if you buy the basic version, or about £130 if you buy the more expensive version. You can fork out for rudder pedals if you are dead keen, but as the joystick has a twist rudder built in it's not really a big deal. The rudder pedals only came out recently anyway, whereas the HOTAS, in the form of one model or another, has been out for donkey's years (the earliest didn't even use USB!). People sometimes complain about drift or centreing, but these can usually be solved by better fiddling with the programming software, or just asking on a forum. Everyone will have experienced SOME problem and will have a solution for you.

I can't speak about Logitech joysticks. The only single joystick I have any experience of is the Saitek EVO, which gives you loads of buttons , hats, and thingies, for a very cheap price, and has good programming software. As far as I can tell, people are about equally split on the merits of either. Most problems do, as before, usually get quick responses if you ask for help on a forum

Saffron, that's as much as I can help, I'm afraid. For complicated personal reasons, my flight sim days are over. But their are many forums out there dealing with flight sims, IL2 in particular, and also with the equipment people have been discussing. WW2 flight sim people seem to be a failrly friendly bunch, and I'm sure they'll all be really willing to give as much help as possible. IL2 is one of the most ppoular sims around. If you really hate remembering keys and joystick configurations, there are also some free, or cheap, voice-command programs, with ready-written profiles. Some people love them and some hate them.

The place to be, with these problems, is definitely a flight sim forum.

If you take to it, you'll have a blast.

Good luck, and apologies again for taking umbridge too quickly.

Martin :)

[Kyle Holgate]

The IL-2 Sturmovik in the game, probably has the rear gunner. It is often impossible to bounce an aircraft with a rear gunner. The best way to hit an aircraft with a rear gunner, is to dive, gain speed then pull up and hit them in the belly. The IL-2 had belly armour around the engine, and underneath the cockpit. It was a difficult plane to kill. However, it was only 6mm in thickness, which means the 8 mm MG of the 109's and FW's could penetrate it easily. You can also try a full deflection shot from the beam, but that requires some real skill to correctly aim the stream, you need to practice that firing position. DO NOT attack from high and from about 30 degrees either side of the tail, that rear gunner will get you. If they are in formation, everyone will shoot at you.

Remember, fire in short bursts, not long bursts. Also, check six, to ensure you are not being bounced by another aircraft. Never, repeat never fly straight and level in the combat zone for more than 30 seconds. Turn into an attacking aircraft and remember that your rudder can help you avoid an incoming enemy and keep you in the fight. Stay offensive, not defensive.

Thanks Dennis, but I was talking about bouncing aircraft in general in the GAME IL-2 not the plane itself. Eyes on the back of the aircraft would make for harder bounces of course! In MS Combat Flight simmulator (MSCFS) you can come in low in a faster aircraft and sneak up to a point on a single seater and it will alwasy (in my experience) somehow become aware of you and manuver.
The early IL-2's I believe were without a rear gunner (no time to check on that today). In any case they were one of Eric Heartman's favorite prey, he'd come in very close and hammer them from below. Problem with that is they flew low and below could mean in the dirt if you weren't careful! I believe they had a vulnerable point down there - which always seemed odd to me for a ground attack craft, seems to me you'd want any weak spots on the top!

[djcyclone]

I use to have MSCFS 3 and I can definetly agree that it was unrealistic when it came to sneaking up on enemy planes. Another thing that bothered me was the computer could always out turn you. I would get into a dog fight, and after it was over I would go to the custom flight screen and would choose the plane I had been fighting for myself, and then make the plane I had been in the enemy.

The computer would still out menuver me. I finally came to the conclusion that the computer did not suffer from the effects of gravity. The enemy planes moved around like they where space jets or something. Just another game that gives the computer an unrealistic advantage, so it can be more challenging. I do not want challenging, I want realistic. If I can crush the AI then I am just having a good day, but I hate when I play a game that never allows you to crush the enemy.

[old_pop2000]

Well, after all this talk, I reloaded the original version of IL-2. I have Forgotten Battles with the Ace package, but I will reload that tonight.

The ME-109K still likes to fly with the nose high, can't trim it out but just a little forward pressure on the stick keeps the nose level. I've got to research that problem.

First mission was a scramble in an FW-190A-9 to intercept three IL-2's coming in at 1000 ft. I am below them, with no chance to gain an altitude advantage. Ok, no problem. We take them head to head, from below and hope we can get one or two on the first pass. I did. I got the leaders number 2 with two short bursts into his engine. If I keep climbing, they go by me, and attack the field. Not good. So, I pull a hard climbing turn to starboard and attempt to get a 90 degree beam shot on number 3. Cool. It works, number 3 breaks into me, from right to left. I break hard to the left and slide in on his tail. Three, 3 second bursts, explosion. The other guys get number 1, intercept complete. That was easy.

Now its Miller time!!:D

[Kyle Holgate]

Maybe I need to get IL-2, I have been rather unappy with MS CFS. My favorite flight sim has always been the original Red Baron released way back in the late 90's (ish). Pretty easy to fly aircraft (yeah, not too realistic) but challenging and the flight styles of the aces you could put in in opponent aircraft was noticeably different.
It was always enjoyable to shoot down Herman Göring too. I wish they'd just re-do the game with modern graphics and leave everything else alone. The campaign was great fun and you could really tell the differences between aircraft without having to have to learn to fly a real plane - something I have no patience for in a simulator!

[Mike Malanaphy]

Maybe I need to get IL-2, I have been rather unappy with MS CFS. My favorite flight sim has always been the original Red Baron released way back in the late 90's (ish). Pretty easy to fly aircraft (yeah, not too realistic) but challenging and the flight styles of the aces you could put in in opponent aircraft was noticeably different.
It was always enjoyable to shoot down Herman Göring too. I wish they'd just re-do the game with modern graphics and leave everything else alone. The campaign was great fun and you could really tell the differences between aircraft without having to have to learn to fly a real plane - something I have no patience for in a simulator!

Hi Kyle,

Red baron was a great game.....would love to see it republished. Another one of my favorite older sims was Chuck Yeager's Air Combat...limited range of aircraft you could fly, but it was fun to fly a Phantom against Colonel Tomb. My favorite sim is Mig Alley, but alas it doesn't like my newer computer.

[old_pop2000]

Hi Kyle,

Red baron was a great game.....would love to see it republished. Another one of my favorite older sims was Chuck Yeager's Air Combat...limited range of aircraft you could fly, but it was fun to fly a Phantom against Colonel Tomb. My favorite sim is Mig Alley, but alas it doesn't like my newer computer.

Hey Mike:
All three of my favorites. I used to have Mig Alley but as you say, it did not like the move to bigger, better and faster. The company is no longer in business. I used to enjoy the Aces of Europe and Pacific sims, they were a blast. I have Secret Weapons over Normandy by Lucasarts. It isn't as detailed as some sims, but it really fun to just fly and blow stuff up. The one mission I haven't mastered is the one where you take a captured Ju-88 and attack an airfield and docks on the French coast. I can get the airbase, the flak guns and his the docks, but I haven't killed all the ships yet.

[old_pop2000]

Maybe I need to get IL-2, I have been rather unappy with MS CFS. My favorite flight sim has always been the original Red Baron released way back in the late 90's (ish). Pretty easy to fly aircraft (yeah, not too realistic) but challenging and the flight styles of the aces you could put in in opponent aircraft was noticeably different.
It was always enjoyable to shoot down Herman Göring too. I wish they'd just re-do the game with modern graphics and leave everything else alone. The campaign was great fun and you could really tell the differences between aircraft without having to have to learn to fly a real plane - something I have no patience for in a simulator!

I have reloaded my IL-2 Forgotten battles and I am going to reload Secret Weapons over Normandy. I will get on NWS store and buy IL-2 Pacific Fighters, if I can get a good deal from Chris.;):D:D

[Saffron]

Well I went out and bought Saitek's X52 flight control system with HOTAS and it has made a difference ... a big difference. I'm still getting used to the difference between keyboard and stick, though. Using the keyboard requires minimal movement while using a stick requires a lot of jerking around ... and too often I don't move the stick far enough. ("Why isn't my plane turning?!?! Oh ... I have to move the stick more!").

I still haven't mastered being able to land, though. I invariably crush the landing gear, which causes a nasty pile-up on the runway when my squadron lands after me.

As for omniscient AI pilots, I haven't noticed that problem in IL-2. I've frequently been able to "sneak" up on an enemy fighter and line up for a perfect tail shot. Russia is now littered with pieces of rear stabilizers blown off enemy aircraft.

[Mart]

Well I went out and bought Saitek's X52 flight control system with HOTAS and it has made a difference ... a big difference. I'm still getting used to the difference between keyboard and stick, though. Using the keyboard requires minimal movement while using a stick requires a lot of jerking around ... and too often I don't move the stick far enough. ("Why isn't my plane turning?!?! Oh ... I have to move the stick more!").


Hi Saffron,

Good luck with your purchase. It's a very popular mid-range solution, and using two hands can be weird!

What you will find is that, for purposes of getting your kit set up well, you have the ideal combination. That is that to say you have one of the most popular sims around, and one of the most popular HOTAS systems around. That means that if you are having problems in configuring your settings, there will always be help on the two biggest forums. The system is very programmable and the software seems easy, but for those who use it a lot, they have turned the configuring of dead zones etc, into an art form! It's almost certain that if your set-up is not performing as the developers of the game would have wanted, then there is a way of tweaking your Saitek program, and people will happily let you know how to tweak your settings.

I mentioned that I don't flight sim any more. But I do remember that there was one thing with the X52 that I could never get to work properly. It was the mini-joystick on the throttle. But I think that is a common and well discussed issue, for which there are solutions.

Now you have the toy, you can have so much fun with it - why bother with the game?! :D

Good luck

Martin :)

[old_pop2000]

Well I went out and bought Saitek's X52 flight control system with HOTAS and it has made a difference ... a big difference. I'm still getting used to the difference between keyboard and stick, though. Using the keyboard requires minimal movement while using a stick requires a lot of jerking around ... and too often I don't move the stick far enough. ("Why isn't my plane turning?!?! Oh ... I have to move the stick more!").

I still haven't mastered being able to land, though. I invariably crush the landing gear, which causes a nasty pile-up on the runway when my squadron lands after me.

As for omniscient AI pilots, I haven't noticed that problem in IL-2. I've frequently been able to "sneak" up on an enemy fighter and line up for a perfect tail shot. Russia is now littered with pieces of rear stabilizers blown off enemy aircraft.

Aha!! Another Eric Hartmann in our midst.

A few pointers on landing. Try to line up parallel to the runway, heading in the opposite direction. Look out the window and wait to reach the end of the runway, then after passing the end start to turn toward the landing path then turn again onto final. Its like an L. Drop your flaps and wheels. Remember that this creates drag, so increase your throttle setting. This allows you the benefit of going around again if problems occur. Once you are on final, flaps down, gear down, nose pointed at the end of the runway. Maintain a constant airspeed of around 75-90 knots of airspeed, this is aircraft dependent. When you reach the end of the runway, chop the throttle and ease the stick back until wings level. The plane should settle easily on to the runway. Start applying brake carefully especially with ME-109 because they ground loop and break landing gears easily. As you lose airspeed and slow, ease back on the stick to allow the tail to settle. Remember these are tail draggers and to see forward, you have to weave from left to right a little to see down the runway. Landings take practice, practice, practice.

[djcyclone]

I expected them to come out with CFS IV, and I hoped it would be aimed at the Korean war era, but I have not seen anything. Does anyone know anything about another CFS? All I know of is CFS III.