Radios on Tanks

[Kyle Holgate]

Was (again) watching the Military channel where they were talking about the top 10 tanks. When they got to the Panzers they mentioned that they were mainly successful due to their FM radio sets allowing full command and control - where the French tanks which were generally better in many ways had none. We've talked recently about radio comm's between fighters - but not tanks.
I hadn't really given it a lot of thought - having considered superior tactics among the Panzers as well as air support to be the deciding factors. I believe French tanks also had the commander multi-tasking as loader IIRC, also a factor.
Interesting how the modern M1A2 has a top down map that looks very much like a war-game map - bet generals and local commanders in the past wish they had that sort of picture of the battlefield!

[asnrobert]

Was (again) watching the Military channel where they were talking about the top 10 tanks. When they got to the Panzers they mentioned that they were mainly successful due to their FM radio sets allowing full command and control - where the French tanks which were generally better in many ways had none. We've talked recently about radio comm's between fighters - but not tanks.
I hadn't really given it a lot of thought - having considered superior tactics among the Panzers as well as air support to be the deciding factors. I believe French tanks also had the commander multi-tasking as loader IIRC, also a factor.
Interesting how the modern M1A2 has a top down map that looks very much like a war-game map - bet generals and local commanders in the past wish they had that sort of picture of the battlefield!

Another problem that the French tanks had which compounded communication problems was the number of crew members. German tanks had three or four- Commander, driver, gunner, and in some tanks, a loader. The French tanks just had a commander and a driver. So, the commander had to look for targets, load, aim and fire the gun, give instructions to the driver, and watch the unit commander's tank for flag signals (and the unit commander had to stick his head outside the turret with the flags and hope he was seen!). This meant French armor was poorly coordinated, while the German tank commanders could devote more time to the big picture than the French could.

[djcyclone]

Another problem that the French tanks had which compounded communication problems was the number of crew members. German tanks had three or four- Commander, driver, gunner, and in some tanks, a loader. The French tanks just had a commander and a driver. So, the commander had to look for targets, load, aim and fire the gun, give instructions to the driver, and watch the unit commander's tank for flag signals (and the unit commander had to stick his head outside the turret with the flags and hope he was seen!). This meant French armor was poorly coordinated, while the German tank commanders could devote more time to the big picture than the French could.



I knew it was bad, but I did not know it was that bad. That would outright suck to be a French Tank Commander. The Russians also did not have radios in theire tanks when the Germans first invaded. German Tank Commanders had been practicing with vary specific war games using their radios and other tactics since 1935. The Russians and the French just where not a match against supperior training.

[Kyle Holgate]

I knew it was bad, but I did not know it was that bad. That would outright suck to be a French Tank Commander. The Russians also did not have radios in theire tanks when the Germans first invaded. German Tank Commanders had been practicing with vary specific war games using their radios and other tactics since 1935. The Russians and the French just where not a match against supperior training.

Tactically the French and British for that matter tended to spread out their tanks more too, where the Panzers often concentrated enabling them to get flank shots by coordinating on the radios. "Fritz take a shot at the Matilda, it will turn toward you and I'll nail him from behind in the engine compartment!"

I believe the tank thought to be the best in early war was the Char B1. It still suffered from the commander having to act as gunner in the turret though.

I'm not sure as a Tank unit leader I want to be standing up and waving flags around in combat. I may be saying "move forward in a wedge formation" to my other tanks but I'm saying "HERE I AM, SHOOT AT ME" to every enemy infantryman around! :eek:

[old_pop2000]

Tactically the French and British for that matter tended to spread out their tanks more too, where the Panzers often concentrated enabling them to get flank shots by coordinating on the radios. "Fritz take a shot at the Matilda, it will turn toward you and I'll nail him from behind in the engine compartment!"

I believe the tank thought to be the best in early war was the Char B1. It still suffered from the commander having to act as gunner in the turret though.

I'm not sure as a Tank unit leader I want to be standing up and waving flags around in combat. I may be saying "move forward in a wedge formation" to my other tanks but I'm saying "HERE I AM, SHOOT AT ME" to every enemy infantryman around! :eek:
Actually, French armour doctrine was based on the slow pace of the infantry. Their tanks did not operate together, in armoured groups. The two French armoured divisions had only recently been organized. The French had never had times to train and test their divisions. This would have made radios apparent to them. Their tanks were essentially infantry support units. The Germans had developed armoured units from the beginning and realized very quickly that radios were essential for command and control in mobile warfare. Very simple, actually.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Another problem that the French tanks had which compounded communication problems was the number of crew members. German tanks had three or four- Commander, driver, gunner, and in some tanks, a loader. The French tanks just had a commander and a driver. So, the commander had to look for targets, load, aim and fire the gun, give instructions to the driver, and watch the unit commander's tank for flag signals (and the unit commander had to stick his head outside the turret with the flags and hope he was seen!). This meant French armor was poorly coordinated, while the German tank commanders could devote more time to the big picture than the French could.

Robert:

That was also a flaw in the early versions of the T-34. Even though the tank was superior to the panzers, the lack of a radio except in command tanks and the lack of a dedicated loader made it easier for German tanks to outmanuever the Russians.