Carrier on PBS

[keschofield]

I've been watching some of the episodes of Carrier on PBS. I have to admit that I am dismayed at the physical conditions that I saw in the background during interviews. I am even more dismayed at the apparent lack of intelligence of the crew members being interviewed. Girl one - "We've got two reactors right? Tee hee hee!". Girl two in response "Reactors? Tee hee hee!".

I was especially upset over a portion of the show that talked about the dating on board. One woman talked about how careful she has to be when coming off duty at 02:00 and going through some parts of the ship! In another scene, one sailor is going on and on about how "there's five buns for every hot dog" and use his hands to pantomime the obvious.

What the hell is going on here? It makes it sound like the Nimitz is a floating house of sophomores!

Sorry for the rant. I'd be interested in any of our recent vets' impressions of this show.

[asnrobert]

I remember reading a newspaper article back in the late '70s I think about letting women aboard ships. Both male and female sailors were quoted as saying it was a bad idea. One even said that if that happened, the ships would become "a floating Peyton Place." It would appear that their prophecy came true.

[Ed Rotondaro]

I've been watching some of the episodes of Carrier on PBS. I have to admit that I am dismayed at the physical conditions that I saw in the background during interviews. I am even more dismayed at the apparent lack of intelligence of the crew members being interviewed. Girl one - "We've got two reactors right? Tee hee hee!". Girl two in response "Reactors? Tee hee hee!".

I was especially upset over a portion of the show that talked about the dating on board. One woman talked about how careful she has to be when coming off duty at 02:00 and going through some parts of the ship! In another scene, one sailor is going on and on about how "there's five buns for every hot dog" and use his hands to pantomime the obvious.

What the hell is going on here? It makes it sound like the Nimitz is a floating house of sophomores!

Sorry for the rant. I'd be interested in any of our recent vets' impressions of this show.

Kurt:

I seem to recall that there was some support ship during the First Gulf War that got the reputation for being the "Love Boat" due to the number of pregnancies that occured among the female crew members. I know that there are many hard working and dedicated women in the navy who are serving at sea, but it looks like they may have fallen into the reality TV show trap of showing nonsense over substance here. I cannot imagine that the skipper of that carrier or his officers would be very happy with this kind of crap. Wonder what Scott thinks?

[subdave]

What the hell is going on here? It makes it sound like the Nimitz is a floating house of sophomores!

Sorry for the rant. I'd be interested in any of our recent vets' impressions of this show.

I'm not a recent vet, (I've been out for over 10 years and my service was on subs, which are very different from surface ships and especially carriers) and I haven't watched all the show yet (I recorded it and I'm watching it as I have a chance) but I'll give you some of my impressions.

The first thing to remember is the age of most of the people on Nimitz. Most are only a couple years out of high school. Just think about how most college-age kids act and the basic interaction between young men and women.

The second thing is that most of the jobs at sea tend to be stressful, while on duty you have to be very professional, because your and other people's lives may depend on it (and I expect all of those interviewed are professional while on-duty). So when you have down time at sea you may 'cut loose' in a different manner than you would if you were in port or at home. So, you may answer questions from reporters in an odd manner.

I don't really know the shipboard knowledge requirements for the average crewman in the surface fleet (as I said my experience is in submarines, which has different requirements); I would expect they would have to learn basic damage control for their spaces and the actions they would need to take in an emergency. But the junior crewmen may not know much more. Think about the place you work, do you know anything about the HVAC system or where the nearest fire extinguisher is?

As far as relationships between sailors; while the Navy (and other services) strive to discourage and minimize these, the truth is they are going to happen (especially in the tight quarters on a ship) and the best you can hope for is to lessen the impact relationships have on the work you need to do. Again, look to your own work environment and how businesses try to prevent office romances. To expect that people should turn off their emotions just because the are in the military, especially in the stressful environment at sea, is unrealistic.

I guess my main point is that people are people, no matter if they are in the military or not. I think that the group doing the documentary is trying to show the human side of the crew and that may not match up with our expectations.


Just my two cents.

Dave

[Kyle Holgate]

I have been watching the show and based on my experience in a MUCH smaller ship (FF) some time ago (Honorable discharge in 1989) my impression is that it's pretty accurate. We did not have women - ahem, I mean females (odd how they don't say women) on the ship very often back then, only one ensign that I can remember and she was a hoot.
Anyway as already stated - most of the crew are 18-22 and are given and expected to deal with a much harder life and stress level than virtually any civilian 18-22 year old has to handle. They're college kids on a 6 month deployment when they 'should' be on spring break doing girls gone wild (or guys).
The Navy also brings together all sorts with all sorts of backgrounds and reasons for getting in. I think they've covered many of those reasons (lousy family, dead end life in the big city, Dad say's get to work, etc). As one sailor said in last night's show - it's a melting pot of all sorts of people, a dictatorship to preserve democracy. That last bit I found most ironic.
Buns and hotdogs - hmmm. well it's said men think with their *****, that bit didn't surprise me at all. I remember plently of men that were walking hot dogs and saw women as walking buns and little else! No surprise there either!
The girls and the reactors - they probably really don't need to know first, and second could care less. If they launch planes or work in the ship's office or many other jobs I can see why they'd care less about what makes the ship go. As an enlisted person goes up in rank though sooner or later they are usually required to get their SWAS (IIRC) Surface warfare qualification - which requires some study and at least on my ship quite a bit of knowledge about everything that makes the ship work. As an EW (electronics warfare Tech) I didn't know crap about the engine spaces (snipeland) but had to go down there and learn a lot to get my surface warfare qual. The girls that were tee-heeing about the reactors will eventually have to learn more if they want to stay in and go anywhere.

[keschofield]

I'm probably being an old "fuddy duddy", but the whole tenor of the show annoyed me. Yes, I realize that being in the Navy is stressful, but I thought shore leave was where you were supposed to "blow off steam".

I'm certain the film makers concentrated on the interviews that they want us to see. If were in Navy PR, though, I'd be steamed at the impression given. I saw scenes with a sailor in a green shirt sleeping under the engine of a jet (maybe exhausted after a long period on excercise?). There were laundry men who were bragging about doing other people's laundry for money as part of an underground economy. Other enlisted personnel were talking about their laundry men and how they choose them as if they were talking about choosing boy/girl friends. Again, while this stuff apparently goes on everywhere, I'm shocked that the USN let it be aired publically

I only mentioned it briefly before, but the whole physical plant looked run down and sloppy. If I didn't know the film was about the Nimitz, I wouldn't have guessed it was filmed on a ship. I saw hallways and doorways that looked like the inside of an office building (an old one) instead of corridors and hatchways.

If I were a Captain, I wouldn't want my name associated with the ship that I saw on TV last night. But for everybody's sakes, its probably good that I'm not a Captain.

Anybody know what Scott's impression of PBS' "Carrier" is?

Thanks for the comments folks.

[john964]

Kurt:

I seem to recall that there was some support ship during the First Gulf War that got the reputation for being the "Love Boat" due to the number of pregnancies that occured among the female crew members. I know that there are many hard working and dedicated women in the navy who are serving at sea, but it looks like they may have fallen into the reality TV show trap of showing nonsense over substance here. I cannot imagine that the skipper of that carrier or his officers would be very happy with this kind of crap. Wonder what Scott thinks?
Ed, you are talking about the USS Acadia, she reported 122 pregnancies with in the first 2-3 months of her deployment. But what was not stated in the MSM was the fact that 97 of the females were in fact married, (that last night ashore)the rest had gotten pregnate before the ship deployed IIRC there was only 2 pregnancies reported onboard that could have happened after the ship started her deployment.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Ed, you are talking about the USS Acadia, she reported 122 pregnancies with in the first 2-3 months of her deployment. But what was not stated in the MSM was the fact that 97 of the females were in fact married, (that last night ashore)the rest had gotten pregnate before the ship deployed IIRC there was only 2 pregnancies reported onboard that could have happened after the ship started her deployment.

John:

And now we know the rest of the story! Thanks.

[john964]

I have been watching the show and based on my experience in a MUCH smaller ship (FF) some time ago (Honorable discharge in 1989) my impression is that it's pretty accurate. We did not have women - ahem, I mean females (odd how they don't say women) on the ship very often back then, only one ensign that I can remember and she was a hoot.
Anyway as already stated - most of the crew are 18-22 and are given and expected to deal with a much harder life and stress level than virtually any civilian 18-22 year old has to handle. They're college kids on a 6 month deployment when they 'should' be on spring break doing girls gone wild (or guys).
The Navy also brings together all sorts with all sorts of backgrounds and reasons for getting in. I think they've covered many of those reasons (lousy family, dead end life in the big city, Dad say's get to work, etc). As one sailor said in last night's show - it's a melting pot of all sorts of people, a dictatorship to preserve democracy. That last bit I found most ironic.
Buns and hotdogs - hmmm. well it's said men think with their *****, that bit didn't surprise me at all. I remember plently of men that were walking hot dogs and saw women as walking buns and little else! No surprise there either!
The girls and the reactors - they probably really don't need to know first, and second could care less. If they launch planes or work in the ship's office or many other jobs I can see why they'd care less about what makes the ship go. As an enlisted person goes up in rank though sooner or later they are usually required to get their SWAS (IIRC) Surface warfare qualification - which requires some study and at least on my ship quite a bit of knowledge about everything that makes the ship work. As an EW (electronics warfare Tech) I didn't know crap about the engine spaces (snipeland) but had to go down there and learn a lot to get my surface warfare qual. The girls that were tee-heeing about the reactors will eventually have to learn more if they want to stay in and go anywhere.

Kyle, I know what you are talking about when I was discharged I was waiting to sit for my boards to become ESW or for officers SWO. Also the smaller the ship the easier it is to know personel in other departments. I had friends who were GSM/E's GMG/M EW EM HT DC OS EN MS SM QM FC SK SH HM and this is from a BM. I found it was easier to get things done on a small ship than a large one. For example if I wanted to have some work done by a electrions mate on a small ship, I would simply go down to the EM space and ask if anyone was available to do the work and it would more than likely be done that day, when I needed work done on a large ship, I would have to fill out a request form and send it up the chain of command and pray that the EM would show up to do the work in less than a week.

[Scott Chisholm]

Gents,

I've not watched any of the show of which you are discussing. However....

I was the Reactor Mechanical Assistant on NIMITZ from 1988-1990; Main Propulsion Assistant on ABRAHAM LINCOLN from 1995-1997; and, Navigator on TARAWA from 1997-1998. We had women on all three ships (those on NIMITZ were TAD as we were officially an all male crew at the time).

On both LINCOLN and TARAWA I was present when we made the transition from an all-male to a mixed-gender crew. It was very interesting how the two ships handled the change. LINCOLN decided to provide minimal direction, opting to remind every one of the Navy Regulations and to treat them like adults. That lasted until the first Steel Beach Picnic, when the Speedos and thongs made it to the Flight Deck. The picnic was halted until everyone got into PT gear....

TARAWA, on the other hand, when overboard in directing each and every aspect of male-female interaction. As Navigator, I was also the Admin Department Head, so I had to deal with the paperwork. LINCOLN's "Women at Sea" instruction was about 15 pages long; TARAWA's was nearly 50, of which over a dozen were "Page 13" statements each and every one of the 900-person crew had to sign - nearly 12 THOUSAND pieces of paper I was to have entered in everyone's service record!

Fortunately, we had a change of command about a month after the women arrived, so being the Smart Nuke, I pigeon-holed the boxes of Page 13s until the new CO took over. I then had him review the Woman at Sea instruction....

CO: "Scott, did we really issue these Page 13s?"

Me: "Yes, sir." The shock on is face was priceless!

CO: "And, you entered them in everyone's service records?"

Me: "No, sir." His shock was even more precious!

CO: "Why not?"

Me: "Because, sir, I think our Women at Sea instruction is stupid and I had better things for my personnelmen to do besides filing useless, insulting, childish paper."

CO: "I see. Good. Throw them away and cancel the instruction. I want to write a new one."

Me: "Yes, sir. Here's a revised instruction for your review. There is exactly one Page 13 acknowledging that the person has read the instruction."

The instruction was signed the next day.

Nine of the first 15 women to come to Reactor Department in ABRAHAM LINCOLN were "lost" due to pregnancy or pregnancy-related problems. Once actually showed up from Prototype three months pregnant! We didn't have quite that problem on TARAWA.

While they can be (and are) very distracting, I find that most of the women I have served with were very professional and raised the standards of work ethics in their divisions. That's not to say we did not have female problem children. We had one woman on LINCOLN who practically needed an armed guard to ensure she kept her coveralls on.

On the other hand, we had a woman on LINCOLN who was so damn good looking that she stopped traffic throughout the ship whenever she walked by in dungarees (this was before coveralls became the normal work uniform). She was a very good worker and was allowed to wear her coveralls (one size too big) in lieu of dungarees. That was a big concession as at the time coveralls were not allowed on the Mess Decks.

The thing to remember about carriers is that they really are small cities that are divided into four distinct "neighborhoods": Air Wing, Flight Deck, Engineering/Reactor Department, and everyone else. With the exception of V-4 (Aviation Fuels) Division, no one outside of Engineering/Reactor Department is allowed in the propulsion spaces except for a tour when they start working on their Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist (ESWS) qualifications. That tour is always done in port when the reactors are shut down.

So, it's not really surprising that the two female brainiacs from the show didn't know much about the reactors. The fact that they knew the number was between 1 and 10 is actually reassuring as it indicates they were awake for Ship Indoctrination training ("I Div").

Frankly, I am not against women on ships, even if they bring a whole slew of new and interesting leadership "challenges" to the table. In fact, it seems to me the Twenty-somethings handle being in a mixed gender crew more gracefully than the Thirty-somethings. Most of the more significant issues I've dealt with involved male Chief Petty Officers abusing their rank/position to extort favors out of the teenagers. "Sex for Schools", "Sex for Evals", etc. In each and every case, the Wrath of Almighty God fell on the offending Khaki.

In the end, most people are smart enough to keep their shipboard romances (1) out of the Department and (2) off the ship. They guys are smart enough to look but not touch, and the gals are good enough to tone down the pheremones and not wear purfume (Purfume on the ship was the hardest thing for me to get used to!).

[Scott Chisholm]

I'm probably being an old "fuddy duddy", but the whole tenor of the show annoyed me. Yes, I realize that being in the Navy is stressful, but I thought shore leave was where you were supposed to "blow off steam".

I'm certain the film makers concentrated on the interviews that they want us to see. If were in Navy PR, though, I'd be steamed at the impression given. I saw scenes with a sailor in a green shirt sleeping under the engine of a jet (maybe exhausted after a long period on excercise?). There were laundry men who were bragging about doing other people's laundry for money as part of an underground economy. Other enlisted personnel were talking about their laundry men and how they choose them as if they were talking about choosing boy/girl friends. Again, while this stuff apparently goes on everywhere, I'm shocked that the USN let it be aired publically

I only mentioned it briefly before, but the whole physical plant looked run down and sloppy. If I didn't know the film was about the Nimitz, I wouldn't have guessed it was filmed on a ship. I saw hallways and doorways that looked like the inside of an office building (an old one) instead of corridors and hatchways.

If I were a Captain, I wouldn't want my name associated with the ship that I saw on TV last night. But for everybody's sakes, its probably good that I'm not a Captain.

Anybody know what Scott's impression of PBS' "Carrier" is?

Thanks for the comments folks.

Kyle,

Remember that NIMITZ is 28 years old. That's like, what, 28 years in ship years? :p

Seriously, above the Hanger Deck, you won't see many water tight doors or hatches - if the water gets there, you've lost the battle! So, the "O-Levels" are mostly non-air tight partitions and "joiner doors".

Divisional offices below the Hanger Deck (which is the Main Deck of a carrier) are non-watertight partitions enclosed within a much larger watertight space.

Depending on the paint scheme and lighting modifications, the ships can be dark and dingy looking. My first ship had dark green tile, pea green bulkheads, and single-lamp light fixtures. Compared to an FFG with hospital white tile and bulkheads, I was living in a cave.

Carriers are DIRTY. There's no helping it. Almost all of the ventilation intakes are located under the Flight Deck and are unfiltered, so we suck jet exhaust and dust into the ship. On a 28 year old ship, dirt and debris has had a long time to accumulate. There is a reason we call dust balls "Dust Bunnies": they multiply like mad!

Carriers, amphibs and logistics ships are what I call "working ships": what they do is dirty work, and it is hard to keep them clean. Cruisers, destroyers and the like are what I call "show boats": there is no need for them to get dirty as a matter of course. Of course, shoot a missile or tow, and the Bos'n has some painting to do....

You only have to have a brand new shirt come back from laundry once with every button crushed to understand the need to "get in good" with the Laundry men. I cannot speak to an "underground" economy, but I was always kind to the Laundry men, primarily because it is hot and unthankful work.

The man sleeping under the jet engine had probably been on his feet for 16 hours handling aircraft. In the summer, the deck of the Flight Deck can reach over 130F. I never begrudged Flight Deck personnel getting whatever rest they can.

[john964]

The man sleeping under the jet engine had probably been on his feet for 16 hours handling aircraft. In the summer, the deck of the Flight Deck can reach over 130F. I never begrudged Flight Deck personnel getting whatever rest they can.Scott, I know how this person feels after a long, long, long day. My personal best was working 104 hours with only 10 hours in my rack thats to say I did not sleep or try to elsewhere. I personaly slept on pallets of 5in rounds and powder cannesters, Sea Sparrow missle cannesters with missiles inside the same with Tomahawks, I have also slept on morring lines, full fire hoses and on fuel hoses. In the military you always try to get as much sleep as possable because you never know when you are going to get more.

This a quote by a USMC SGM
Why stand when you can sit,
why sit when you can lie down,
why lie down when you can sleep.

[keschofield]

Gents,

I've not watched any of the show of which you are discussing. However....

...... They guys are smart enough to look but not touch, and the gals are good enough to tone down the pheremones and not wear purfume (Purfume on the ship was the hardest thing for me to get used to!).

Thanks for weighing in on this Scott. Your post is reassuring. I'm guessing that the scenes I saw on the show were carefully selected to be as salacious as possible for television. As usual the TV is full of @#%&. It doesn't have to be that way, but I guess @#%& makes money. I would have expected more from PBS though.

[Kyle Holgate]

Thanks for weighing in on this Scott. Your post is reassuring. I'm guessing that the scenes I saw on the show were carefully selected to be as salacious as possible for television. As usual the TV is full of @#%&. It doesn't have to be that way, but I guess @#%& makes money. I would have expected more from PBS though.

I dunno - I don't think they were trying to impress anything untrue or misleading on anyone. I'm sure they picked and chose certain people to highlight - but so far they've got a pretty good cross section of humanity I think from the number one PO to a dirtbag racist getting kicked out.
To be honest I think most people would be shocked by much of the stuff that goes on and what people say and sometimes do on ships. What goes on at sea, stays at sea was said once so far - but now it's not just at sea, everyone can watch it! Is it really that surprising though, you have a bunch of horny young people, many that still have a lot of growing up to do - under stress - being human.
The bottom line in my experience though is that when the chips come down everyone pulls together and works as a team. Watching 18-19 year olds with incredible responsibilities under high stress doing their jobs with great professionalism and skill is gratifying. They are showing this side of the people too. I've seen drunk, rowdy, lecherous sailors one day do heroic things the next.
I find Carrier a refreshing show - and have much of my family watching it. It provides are fairly reasonable idea of what Navy life is like at sea and in ports, though obviously from a small ship perspective many of my experiences are different. I knew everyone, and everyone knew me... not always a good thing!

[asnrobert]

The girls and the reactors - they probably really don't need to know first, and second could care less. If they launch planes or work in the ship's office or many other jobs I can see why they'd care less about what makes the ship go. As an enlisted person goes up in rank though sooner or later they are usually required to get their SWAS (IIRC) Surface warfare qualification - which requires some study and at least on my ship quite a bit of knowledge about everything that makes the ship work. As an EW (electronics warfare Tech) I didn't know crap about the engine spaces (snipeland) but had to go down there and learn a lot to get my surface warfare qual. The girls that were tee-heeing about the reactors will eventually have to learn more if they want to stay in and go anywhere.

That's one thing I liked about subs- every one (E-1 and up) had a year to get their submarine qualifications- "dolphins," and which meant everyone had to have a working knowledge of the boat from stem to stern (including being able to draw diagrams of the various systems (trim/drain, electrical, reactor and propulsion, ventilation, compressed air and hydraulics) as well as having to know where the major components were. Of course, we didn't have any woman (My first boat was the Georgia, which had 9-man bunkrooms; rumor was that they designed it that way so one bunkroom could be used for female crew members, if we ever got them).

[Ed Rotondaro]

Gents,

I've not watched any of the show of which you are discussing. However....

I was the Reactor Mechanical Assistant on NIMITZ from 1988-1990; Main Propulsion Assistant on ABRAHAM LINCOLN from 1995-1997; and, Navigator on TARAWA from 1997-1998. We had women on all three ships (those on NIMITZ were TAD as we were officially an all male crew at the time).

On both LINCOLN and TARAWA I was present when we made the transition from an all-male to a mixed-gender crew. It was very interesting how the two ships handled the change. LINCOLN decided to provide minimal direction, opting to remind every one of the Navy Regulations and to treat them like adults. That lasted until the first Steel Beach Picnic, when the Speedos and thongs made it to the Flight Deck. The picnic was halted until everyone got into PT gear....

TARAWA, on the other hand, when overboard in directing each and every aspect of male-female interaction. As Navigator, I was also the Admin Department Head, so I had to deal with the paperwork. LINCOLN's "Women at Sea" instruction was about 15 pages long; TARAWA's was nearly 50, of which over a dozen were "Page 13" statements each and every one of the 900-person crew had to sign - nearly 12 THOUSAND pieces of paper I was to have entered in everyone's service record!

Fortunately, we had a change of command about a month after the women arrived, so being the Smart Nuke, I pigeon-holed the boxes of Page 13s until the new CO took over. I then had him review the Woman at Sea instruction....

CO: "Scott, did we really issue these Page 13s?"

Me: "Yes, sir." The shock on is face was priceless!

CO: "And, you entered them in everyone's service records?"

Me: "No, sir." His shock was even more precious!

CO: "Why not?"

Me: "Because, sir, I think our Women at Sea instruction is stupid and I had better things for my personnelmen to do besides filing useless, insulting, childish paper."

CO: "I see. Good. Throw them away and cancel the instruction. I want to write a new one."

Me: "Yes, sir. Here's a revised instruction for your review. There is exactly one Page 13 acknowledging that the person has read the instruction."

The instruction was signed the next day.

Nine of the first 15 women to come to Reactor Department in ABRAHAM LINCOLN were "lost" due to pregnancy or pregnancy-related problems. Once actually showed up from Prototype three months pregnant! We didn't have quite that problem on TARAWA.

While they can be (and are) very distracting, I find that most of the women I have served with were very professional and raised the standards of work ethics in their divisions. That's not to say we did not have female problem children. We had one woman on LINCOLN who practically needed an armed guard to ensure she kept her coveralls on.

On the other hand, we had a woman on LINCOLN who was so damn good looking that she stopped traffic throughout the ship whenever she walked by in dungarees (this was before coveralls became the normal work uniform). She was a very good worker and was allowed to wear her coveralls (one size too big) in lieu of dungarees. That was a big concession as at the time coveralls were not allowed on the Mess Decks.

The thing to remember about carriers is that they really are small cities that are divided into four distinct "neighborhoods": Air Wing, Flight Deck, Engineering/Reactor Department, and everyone else. With the exception of V-4 (Aviation Fuels) Division, no one outside of Engineering/Reactor Department is allowed in the propulsion spaces except for a tour when they start working on their Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist (ESWS) qualifications. That tour is always done in port when the reactors are shut down.

So, it's not really surprising that the two female brainiacs from the show didn't know much about the reactors. The fact that they knew the number was between 1 and 10 is actually reassuring as it indicates they were awake for Ship Indoctrination training ("I Div").

Frankly, I am not against women on ships, even if they bring a whole slew of new and interesting leadership "challenges" to the table. In fact, it seems to me the Twenty-somethings handle being in a mixed gender crew more gracefully than the Thirty-somethings. Most of the more significant issues I've dealt with involved male Chief Petty Officers abusing their rank/position to extort favors out of the teenagers. "Sex for Schools", "Sex for Evals", etc. In each and every case, the Wrath of Almighty God fell on the offending Khaki.

In the end, most people are smart enough to keep their shipboard romances (1) out of the Department and (2) off the ship. They guys are smart enough to look but not touch, and the gals are good enough to tone down the pheremones and not wear purfume (Purfume on the ship was the hardest thing for me to get used to!).

Scott:

As always it is a joy to learn how the navy really works LOL! Your CO on the Tarawa must have been very grateful for your initiative in handling a nonsense situation. I'm glad that you brought up the distinction between the younger crew and the older seadogs. I would imagine that there would be more resentment and difficulties with long service NCOs who remembered when it was a man's navy then ther would be from young sailors who were accustomed to serving with women. What I hope the show doesn't foster is that idiotic belief by Sen. Kerry that only the uneducated and incompetent end up in the enlisted ranks of our military. After all there are plenty of incompetent officers out right?;)

Being that this is a reality show, you know that the individuals are "coached" to a degree to present the director's agenda.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Scott, I know how this person feels after a long, long, long day. My personal best was working 104 hours with only 10 hours in my rack thats to say I did not sleep or try to elsewhere. I personaly slept on pallets of 5in rounds and powder cannesters, Sea Sparrow missle cannesters with missiles inside the same with Tomahawks, I have also slept on morring lines, full fire hoses and on fuel hoses. In the military you always try to get as much sleep as possable because you never know when you are going to get more.

This a quote by a USMC SGM
Why stand when you can sit,
why sit when you can lie down,
why lie down when you can sleep.

John:

It's interesting to note that you see the same levels of exhaustion on soldiers and marines who will find a way to sleep on anything if they are not being shot at. A friend of mine sent my photos of soldiers sleeping in shallow foxholes in Iraq (early on before the barracks were built) as well as on top of tank turrets etc. You can tell a veteran by their ability to rack out anywhere under just about any conditions. Thanks for toughing it out for the rest of us.

[Ed Rotondaro]

I dunno - I don't think they were trying to impress anything untrue or misleading on anyone. I'm sure they picked and chose certain people to highlight - but so far they've got a pretty good cross section of humanity I think from the number one PO to a dirtbag racist getting kicked out.
To be honest I think most people would be shocked by much of the stuff that goes on and what people say and sometimes do on ships. What goes on at sea, stays at sea was said once so far - but now it's not just at sea, everyone can watch it! Is it really that surprising though, you have a bunch of horny young people, many that still have a lot of growing up to do - under stress - being human.
The bottom line in my experience though is that when the chips come down everyone pulls together and works as a team. Watching 18-19 year olds with incredible responsibilities under high stress doing their jobs with great professionalism and skill is gratifying. They are showing this side of the people too. I've seen drunk, rowdy, lecherous sailors one day do heroic things the next.
I find Carrier a refreshing show - and have much of my family watching it. It provides are fairly reasonable idea of what Navy life is like at sea and in ports, though obviously from a small ship perspective many of my experiences are different. I knew everyone, and everyone knew me... not always a good thing!

Kyle:

Remember sailors about the same age as the ones on this show also saved the USS Cole when most had written her off.

[old_pop2000]

John:

It's interesting to note that you see the same levels of exhaustion on soldiers and marines who will find a way to sleep on anything if they are not being shot at. A friend of mine sent my photos of soldiers sleeping in shallow foxholes in Iraq (early on before the barracks were built) as well as on top of tank turrets etc. You can tell a veteran by their ability to rack out anywhere under just about any conditions. Thanks for toughing it out for the rest of us.
Don't laugh, but the ability to sleep anywhere is something that you learn in the military. After I got out of the USAF, I could lay my head back anywhere, and sleep for 20 minutes and wakeup refreshed. My wife can't and it drives her nuts. Another problem is falling asleep immediately. Before the service, It would take me an hour to get to sleep. Since my service time, I fall right to sleep. I never really thought about it. Even my daughter after her short service time, is now the same way. She sleeps anywhere.

[Kyle Holgate]

Kyle:

Remember sailors about the same age as the ones on this show also saved the USS Cole when most had written her off.

Exactly. The show to date has touched on many different people so far, some are dirtbags (to use a navy phrase) some are just in between and some are the top of their class. They've covered a seaman that has knocked up his girlfriend and is sticking with the Navy and dealing with the stress from back home AND daily life. They've shown the racist drunk off his ass on liberty and getting kicked out. They aren't focusing on negative or shocking things, they seem to be covering things pretty well - the good, bad and ugly all out for everyone to see.
I thought the laundry thing was pretty amusing. On my ship I was one of fairly few that had extra space in my working space for stuff. I'd often stock up on soda pop and cerial and maybe some other goodies. Once we were at sea for 3-4 months and the ship had run out of pop and most cerial and what not I'd show up with a can or box on the mess deck. Amazing what people will pay for a bowl of cherios or captain crunch or a can of Coke! Yeah, it was kind of frowned upon by the high up muckity mucks but I 'sold' a bowlful or can to officers too. Even the XO got a can of coke once (I admit, his was free). My point is plenty of stuff like that goes on, and departments trade and swap things and do things under the table and what not. Until or unless it negativly impacts morale or interferes with the operation of the command - 9 out of 10 times it's overlooked. Only boot ensigns usually make noise about nonsense things, and are often "thumped" by a senior chief or master chief and set strait. Those times were fun to watch.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Exactly. The show to date has touched on many different people so far, some are dirtbags (to use a navy phrase) some are just in between and some are the top of their class. They've covered a seaman that has knocked up his girlfriend and is sticking with the Navy and dealing with the stress from back home AND daily life. They've shown the racist drunk off his ass on liberty and getting kicked out. They aren't focusing on negative or shocking things, they seem to be covering things pretty well - the good, bad and ugly all out for everyone to see.
I thought the laundry thing was pretty amusing. On my ship I was one of fairly few that had extra space in my working space for stuff. I'd often stock up on soda pop and cerial and maybe some other goodies. Once we were at sea for 3-4 months and the ship had run out of pop and most cerial and what not I'd show up with a can or box on the mess deck. Amazing what people will pay for a bowl of cherios or captain crunch or a can of Coke! Yeah, it was kind of frowned upon by the high up muckity mucks but I 'sold' a bowlful or can to officers too. Even the XO got a can of coke once (I admit, his was free). My point is plenty of stuff like that goes on, and departments trade and swap things and do things under the table and what not. Until or unless it negativly impacts morale or interferes with the operation of the command - 9 out of 10 times it's overlooked. Only boot ensigns usually make noise about nonsense things, and are often "thumped" by a senior chief or master chief and set strait. Those times were fun to watch.

Kyle and Scott:

How often do ships at sea replenish food etc.?

[john964]

Kyle and Scott:

How often do ships at sea replenish food etc.?
It depends on operational requirements but on average once every three days. The thing you miss the most is fresh fruits veggies and milk.

[Ed Rotondaro]

It depends on operational requirements but on average once every three days. The thing you miss the most is fresh fruits veggies and milk.

John:

That often? Better protect those replenishment ships or you'll have a whole lot of hungry sailors ready to mutiny LOL!

[Kyle Holgate]

It depends on operational requirements but on average once every three days. The thing you miss the most is fresh fruits veggies and milk.

I seem to remember it was no more than once a week for an FF - if not less often than that. We were not doing any high speed so fuel wasn't an issue, and perhaps we ate light? I dunno! I never really knew how often other ships unrepped and/or took on stores and ammo (and most important, mail!!!)

[asnrobert]

John:

That often? Better protect those replenishment ships or you'll have a whole lot of hungry sailors ready to mutiny LOL!

Unfortunately on subs we didn't have the option of replenishment ships- If we were on a three month patrol we ate what we carried, unless we came into port for some reason (which did happen on some patrols). Our fresh milk lasted about two weeks, and then was replaced with powdered milk (aka "white death," "plastic cow") for the rest of the patrol. If the eggs ran out, they were replaced with powdered eggs (I saw an omelet made of them once- it was brown). I remember one patrol we stored our eggs in the ventilation room to make room for salad supplies in our reefer- the cooks thought it would be cool enough- it wasn't. I was doing mess duty at the time and recall one of the cooks trying to sort through the rotten ones and find the fee that were still good. We came into port for some reason a couple days later and there was an all-hands muster to remove all the rotten eggs from the sub. Then it was decided to put the potatoes in the ventilaton room. That worked until one of the cooling pipes sprang a leak, then we had our own hydroponics farm. So I (and the other mess cranks) had to tote the spuds (which were sprouting) back to the reefer. At least I served on missile subs, which had more storage space than the fast attacks.

[djcyclone]

I was honorably discharged in 2004, and I can vouch that on the Destroyer that I served on, it was vary well known just what you could do, and what you could not do. There was a case of an OS, 2nd class Petty officer falling in love and asking a seaman OS to marry him. That qualifies as Fratinization since they worked in the same division. The Petty Officer was broke down to seaman. He appealed with the commodore of our unit, and got his rank back, but he had to transfer to another post.

We had a women on board our ship that was the well known as the get laid anytime you want kind of women. People where always talking about her, but most of the guys stayed away from her. She did not even have a boyfriend, because you do not want the door knob that everyone has had their turn. Their was one case that I was aware of, when an 1st Class OS went out drinking with that women, and they ended up back at the ship and made an appointment to take a shower together and sleep in his rack. They did not get caught because the OS was well liked, and so everyone kept their mouth shut.

I think the navy is allowing this to get people to join. They do not want people to know what it is really like. You join the Navy, and you grow up real quick, because of the things you do and see. That is why they are showing people sleeping on the deck, and basically just chilling out. Then you get in and find out you have make your bed everyday in the exact way the XO feels is appropriate. Do not forget to paint the ship once a week, and clean the floors even though you can see your own reflecton already. Oh yea, and then pollishing that bell on the front of the ship, that no one has touched in over a year. You just get the lucky number to go down their and spend 2 days scrubbing that thing.

Lets not forget about the refuling process. Even Nuke Carriers have to do this for their Jet Fuel. Standing on the deck freezing your A-S off. Heve, Heve, Heve while your holding on to a huge rope that is covered with oil, greese, or something nasty. Crank duty, for three months of out right slave labor. Being on Duty and standing watch for eight hours, and then when you get off the Captain calls General Quarters, and you have to stay on station for the rest of the day, and then the drill is over and it is time for you to go on watch again.

Show that stuff on TV and see how manny people want join. F--K free college, I'll work my way through college at minimum wage with two jobs before I volunteer for that. Despite what you have read, I actually enjoyed my time in the Navy, except when I worked with JAG. That sucked in more ways than one, but the sea duty I thought was fun.

[Warship NWS]

Just a quick note.. due to the adult topic nature of this thread I will remind everyone to keep it within a realm of "PG-13", I am sure everyone understands what I mean.

Thanks.

[asnrobert]

I was honorably discharged in 2004, and I can vouch that on the Destroyer that I served on, it was vary well known just what you could do, and what you could not do. There was a case of an OS, 2nd class Petty officer falling in love and asking a seaman OS to marry him. That qualifies as Fratinization since they worked in the same division. The Petty Officer was broke down to seaman. He appealed with the commodore of our unit, and got his rank back, but he had to transfer to another post.

We had a women on board our ship that was the well known as the get laid anytime you want kind of women. People where always talking about her, but most of the guys stayed away from her. She did not even have a boyfriend, because you do not want the door knob that everyone has had their turn. Their was one case that I was aware of, when an 1st Class OS went out drinking with that women, and they ended up back at the ship and made an appointment to take a shower together and sleep in his rack. They did not get caught because the OS was well liked, and so everyone kept their mouth shut.

I think the navy is allowing this to get people to join. They do not want people to know what it is really like. You join the Navy, and you grow up real quick, because of the things you do and see. That is why they are showing people sleeping on the deck, and basically just chilling out. Then you get in and find out you have make your bed everyday in the exact way the XO feels is appropriate. Do not forget to paint the ship once a week, and clean the floors even though you can see your own reflecton already. Oh yea, and then pollishing that bell on the front of the ship, that no one has touched in over a year. You just get the lucky number to go down their and spend 2 days scrubbing that thing.

Lets not forget about the refuling process. Even Nuke Carriers have to do this for their Jet Fuel. Standing on the deck freezing your A-S off. Heve, Heve, Heve while your holding on to a huge rope that is covered with oil, greese, or something nasty. Crank duty, for three months of out right slave labor. Being on Duty and standing watch for eight hours, and then when you get off the Captain calls General Quarters, and you have to stay on station for the rest of the day, and then the drill is over and it is time for you to go on watch again.

Show that stuff on TV and see how manny people want join. F--K free college, I'll work my way through college at minimum wage with two jobs before I volunteer for that. Despite what you have read, I actually enjoyed my time in the Navy, except when I worked with JAG. That sucked in more ways than one, but the sea duty I thought was fun.

I wouldn't trade my experience in the Navy for anything, but it was rarely like what they showed in the recruiting commercials. Do you notice that in the recruiting commercials they always show the glamorous stuff, like jumping out of airplanes, or working with high tech stuff, when in reality most of what servicemen do is grunt work- chipping/painting, KP/mess cook duty, etc. And of course I was very familiar with the "work it may, shine it must" mentality.

[Rick]

Saw part of the episode where they showed the crew on liberty in Bahrain. Had some flashbacks to when my ship was tied up in Dubai, the scenery and experince was nearly identical (well minus the female sailors at the pool, no women on my ship back then)

[djcyclone]

I wouldn't trade my experience in the Navy for anything, but it was rarely like what they showed in the recruiting commercials. Do you notice that in the recruiting commercials they always show the glamorous stuff, like jumping out of airplanes, or working with high tech stuff, when in reality most of what servicemen do is grunt work- chipping/painting, KP/mess cook duty, etc. And of course I was very familiar with the "work it may, shine it must" mentality.



What is the deal with the Navy anyway. When it comes to commercials about the Marines, you always see a drill seargent screaming at the top of his lungs at recruit. The Marines are straight forward about their life sucking, but the Navy tries to make it seem like it is all just a piece of cake.

I know that the Navy boot camp now is much easier than when I went through ( In fact it was decided that it should be easier right after I graduated, go figure), but when I went through it was not just a walk in the park. It was just as demanding as anyother bootcamp with Petty Officers yelling at you, the entire squad getting in trouble for one persons mistake. I mean I know that the Marines are more physical, but I just think the Navy should be a little more honest as to the fact that they are not the easiest player. In fact from what I understand, it is easier to get through the Army boot camp then it is to get through the Navy. When in the Army the recruits get time out slips. If the recruit just cannot take someone yelling at them anymore they can pull out that slip and they get to go and take a break. What kind of non sense is that?

[djcyclone]

Saw part of the episode where they showed the crew on liberty in Bahrain. Had some flashbacks to when my ship was tied up in Dubai, the scenery and experince was nearly identical (well minus the female sailors at the pool, no women on my ship back then)



Ah Bahrain, a heep of endless sand, and the kind of heat that makes you want to puke as soon as you get off of the plane. I spent three weeks there while the Navy tried to find my ship so I could get on board. I took a ride in a taxi, and the driver literally stunk so bad that I puked as soon as I got out of the car. It actually smelled like there was a dead animal in the back of the car.

I remember the tour of the base, and it was getting dark as we where finishing. We went into a building and when we came out 6 Marines ran by us and hit the deck. A group of Marines started setting up their M-60 or whatever the gun that they use today is. Anyway the other Marines simply took up position with their M-16's and I remember thinking "Is their something I should know right now". "Is the base under attack or something, and somebody forgot to let us know". Turns out they where just doing that to mess with us.

There is nothing like walking through a gate to a base, and only 50 feet in front of you is a Humvee with a Marine in it pointing the Gun straight at you. Talk about feeling welcome or something.

[clacton2]

I wouldn't trade my experience in the Navy for anything, but it was rarely like what they showed in the recruiting commercials. Do you notice that in the recruiting commercials they always show the glamorous stuff, like jumping out of airplanes, or working with high tech stuff, when in reality most of what servicemen do is grunt work- chipping/painting, KP/mess cook duty, etc. And of course I was very familiar with the "work it may, shine it must" mentality.

Hi,
Would'nt swap my time in the RN either, made me what I am today ( whatever that may be! LOL ).
Not all good times though, as with every job, it has its downsides, and more than its fair share of weirdos and bullsh****rs.
In keeping with forces throughout the world, the RN also had the familiar, "If it moves salute it, if it does'nt, whitewash it" mentality, although it did not seem to me, so prevalent in the navy, as it was in the Army and RAF.
Jon;)

[asnrobert]

What is the deal with the Navy anyway. When it comes to commercials about the Marines, you always see a drill seargent screaming at the top of his lungs at recruit. The Marines are straight forward about their life sucking, but the Navy tries to make it seem like it is all just a piece of cake.

I know that the Navy boot camp now is much easier than when I went through ( In fact it was decided that it should be easier right after I graduated, go figure), but when I went through it was not just a walk in the park. It was just as demanding as anyother bootcamp with Petty Officers yelling at you, the entire squad getting in trouble for one persons mistake. I mean I know that the Marines are more physical, but I just think the Navy should be a little more honest as to the fact that they are not the easiest player. In fact from what I understand, it is easier to get through the Army boot camp then it is to get through the Navy. When in the Army the recruits get time out slips. If the recruit just cannot take someone yelling at them anymore they can pull out that slip and they get to go and take a break. What kind of non sense is that?

The most realistic Navy commercial I saw was actually a Saturday Night Live skit. The announcer says "Port of call: Bayonne, New Jersey", and you saw sailors swabbing the decks and in the scullery doing mess duty. At the end you see a sailor in silhouette with a mop and the announcer says, "Navy,: not just a job, it's $87.95 a week."

[Ed Rotondaro]

I was honorably discharged in 2004, and I can vouch that on the Destroyer that I served on, it was vary well known just what you could do, and what you could not do. There was a case of an OS, 2nd class Petty officer falling in love and asking a seaman OS to marry him. That qualifies as Fratinization since they worked in the same division. The Petty Officer was broke down to seaman. He appealed with the commodore of our unit, and got his rank back, but he had to transfer to another post.

We had a women on board our ship that was the well known as the get laid anytime you want kind of women. People where always talking about her, but most of the guys stayed away from her. She did not even have a boyfriend, because you do not want the door knob that everyone has had their turn. Their was one case that I was aware of, when an 1st Class OS went out drinking with that women, and they ended up back at the ship and made an appointment to take a shower together and sleep in his rack. They did not get caught because the OS was well liked, and so everyone kept their mouth shut.

I think the navy is allowing this to get people to join. They do not want people to know what it is really like. You join the Navy, and you grow up real quick, because of the things you do and see. That is why they are showing people sleeping on the deck, and basically just chilling out. Then you get in and find out you have make your bed everyday in the exact way the XO feels is appropriate. Do not forget to paint the ship once a week, and clean the floors even though you can see your own reflecton already. Oh yea, and then pollishing that bell on the front of the ship, that no one has touched in over a year. You just get the lucky number to go down their and spend 2 days scrubbing that thing.

Lets not forget about the refuling process. Even Nuke Carriers have to do this for their Jet Fuel. Standing on the deck freezing your A-S off. Heve, Heve, Heve while your holding on to a huge rope that is covered with oil, greese, or something nasty. Crank duty, for three months of out right slave labor. Being on Duty and standing watch for eight hours, and then when you get off the Captain calls General Quarters, and you have to stay on station for the rest of the day, and then the drill is over and it is time for you to go on watch again.

Show that stuff on TV and see how manny people want join. F--K free college, I'll work my way through college at minimum wage with two jobs before I volunteer for that. Despite what you have read, I actually enjoyed my time in the Navy, except when I worked with JAG. That sucked in more ways than one, but the sea duty I thought was fun.

DJ:

I think you have on a very good point here. No matter how hard the navy tries to glamorize the service, this still is a lot of grunt work and exhausting labor on even the most sophisticated ship. You can either hack or it get out. Officers might have a different perspective (Scott what do you think?) because they intend to make it a career. What did you do at JAG?

[Ed Rotondaro]

The most realistic Navy commercial I saw was actually a Saturday Night Live skit. The announcer says "Port of call: Bayonne, New Jersey", and you saw sailors swabbing the decks and in the scullery doing mess duty. At the end you see a sailor in silhouette with a mop and the announcer says, "Navy,: not just a job, it's $87.95 a week."

Robert:

I remember that skit, it was perfectly placed to counter the current Navy commericals about it not being a job, it's an adventure!

[Kyle Holgate]

Robert:

I remember that skit, it was perfectly placed to counter the current Navy commericals about it not being a job, it's an adventure!

We always said: "The Navy, It's not just a job, it's an ordeal!"

What ulitmately pissed me off to the point that I had to get out was the BS part. "200 years of naval tradition unfettered by common sense". By definition it's a dictatorship system, and like anywhere kiss asses and the ass holes all too often make it to places they shouldn't be. Swabbing perfectly clean floors or polishing already clean brass - lots of things like that make no sense. It does nothing to promote professionalism, it promotes bitching and is a waste of time. I absolutely LOVED my JOB in the Navy, I was good at it, had fun doing it, found it most interesting and spent my own time getting better at it. Wayyy too often though I had to stop what I was doing so that we could kiss some Admiral muckity muck's ass or man the rails to look pretty or some other nonsense. Heh heh, yeah - I am a bit bitter about the whole thing. I wish I could have kept doing what I was doing without the idiot Chief and Master Chief in my command. It was one of the happiest and saddest day in my life when I left the Navy with my ghetto blaster playing "take this job and shove it".

[Saffron]

Hello to the NWS community:

This is actually Saffron's fiance at the keyboard controls for the moment. I was reading over her shoulder, saw this thread, and decided to share my little "It's not just a job ... " story. I hope hijacking her membership doesn't violate any user rules, but if it does you have my permission to make Saffron walk the plank. (just kidding of course. :D)

I graduated propulsion engineering "A" school at Great Mistakes in '88 and served aboard the USS Canopus as a BT. Yep, I admit ... I joined the Navy because I wanted adventure. My best friend and I joined together out of high school. He ended up on a nuclear aircraft carrier (USS Eisenhower), I ended up on a sub tender. Can we say ... "envy?"

Now here's the kicker -- I was a BT on a sub tender. Oh, you should've seen the look on the faces of the chiefs who handed out my orders to report to the Canopus. They were mystified and even a little hostile that I managed to get such a plum assignment right out of school (not that I asked for it ... ). Truth is, I wanted sea duty, but instead I ended up as a propulsion engineer on board a ship that never went anywhere. While I was stuck in mosquito-infested King's Bay in total isolation (my CO even said at orientation, "If you don't have a car on this base, you're f****d."), my best friend was sending me pictures from Spain, Italy, Turkey, Israel, Egypt, etc. etc.

I'm sure you can imagine the torture I had to endure, being the new snipe on a stationary ship. Lots of down time ... and lots of down time = being yanked around by every passing ensign to do odd jobs. Things like chipping ice out of the walk-in freezers, digging up dirt from in between floor tiles, and hauling garbage all the way from the galley to the dumpsters on shore (Canopus was a large ship) made me question the wisdom of enlisting. My favorite was washing dishes. I didn't wash the plates and utensils. I washed the big stuff ... I worked in a little cubicle by myself with two huge sinks filled with scalding water heated to Navy regulations temperatures. Sometimes there were no dishes to wash, so I'd lean on the counter and read my copy of Red Storm Rising ... until a commander wandered in and chewed me out for reading on duty. After snatching my book and waving it around while dressing me down, he suddenly calmed and asked, "Hey, can I borrow this book?" I said of course he could (he was a commander, after all) ... he didn't return it for 3 months, and since it was a library book, I got saddled with overdue fines (the commander later apologized and paid the fines, though, so that worked out okay).

The only time the Canopus ever put to sea was, aggravatingly enough, the very same weekend Saffron was flying all the way to the US from England to visit. There was no warning at all that we were sailing that weekend. I woke up that morning looking forward to picking her up at the Orlando airport only to find myself 300 miles off the coast of Georgia. No cell phones, emails, or texting back then. Saffron spent all weekend at the airport thinking I had stood her up, then flew back to England that Sunday (to the tune of around $2,000 in wasted British pounds). That incident damn near ended our relationship, and is probably why I'm still only her fiance and not husband (I just got thumped in the head for saying that, too).

I started to wonder if this duty station was some sort of punishment. Here's why I thought that:

One of the final evals for graduating "A" school was to draw from memory some schematics of a ship's power plant. This was a pass/fail endeavor ... if you didn't do it right, you failed. Period. As it turns out, the copy of the schematic I had contained a mistake. As anyone who has ever made a photocopy can attest to, if you have a second sheet of paper beneath the one you're copying ... and they aren't perfectly aligned ... you'll get a line on the copy where the top sheet ends and the bottom sheet begins. Well, that's exactly how pipes are depicted on the schematic ... a line. My copy contained an extra "pipe" that wasn't supposed to be there due to a copying mistake.

So I memorized the schematic with the extra "pipe," drew it that way during the eval, and promptly failed. This little controversy went all the way to the commander of the base, who finally understood the screw up and passed me ... but sometimes I still wonder if I was sent to No Man's Land because of that.

Yep ... I was looking for adventure and found it in all the wrong ways. I ended up getting a medical discharge (records say honorable) some time later when I took my annual physical and dismally failed the eye exam. I was below what they would accept even with corrected vision, so they had to pull me out of engineering, which was a breach of contract. They gave me the opportunity to either a) strike for another rate (which would be at least another year of training while chipping more ice, hauling more garbage, and washing more dishes) or b) go home.

Can you guess which one I picked?

The Navy turned out to be a bitter disappointment since I didn't get anything that I had hoped to receive from it, but I don't blame the Navy. It was just bad luck, bad timing, and bad eyesight that did me in.

Anyhow, take care, folks, and thanks for reading.

[Ed Rotondaro]

We always said: "The Navy, It's not just a job, it's an ordeal!"

What ulitmately pissed me off to the point that I had to get out was the BS part. "200 years of naval tradition unfettered by common sense". By definition it's a dictatorship system, and like anywhere kiss asses and the ass holes all too often make it to places they shouldn't be. Swabbing perfectly clean floors or polishing already clean brass - lots of things like that make no sense. It does nothing to promote professionalism, it promotes bitching and is a waste of time. I absolutely LOVED my JOB in the Navy, I was good at it, had fun doing it, found it most interesting and spent my own time getting better at it. Wayyy too often though I had to stop what I was doing so that we could kiss some Admiral muckity muck's ass or man the rails to look pretty or some other nonsense. Heh heh, yeah - I am a bit bitter about the whole thing. I wish I could have kept doing what I was doing without the idiot Chief and Master Chief in my command. It was one of the happiest and saddest day in my life when I left the Navy with my ghetto blaster playing "take this job and shove it".

Kyle:

You would think that with the high tech nature of the navy, that instead of giving you guys silly make work projects, they would either conduct drills or training exercises in your particular field. Discipline is one thing, but they have a word for this stuff in the Army and its called Chicken Sh*t. The problme with peactime militaries is that they have nothing else to keep theire personnel busy and this gives the officers a chance to show how tight a ship they run. Reminds me of the Victorian era RN where spit and polish was valued more than initiative and professional expertise.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Hello to the NWS community:

This is actually Saffron's fiance at the keyboard controls for the moment. I was reading over her shoulder, saw this thread, and decided to share my little "It's not just a job ... " story. I hope hijacking her membership doesn't violate any user rules, but if it does you have my permission to make Saffron walk the plank. (just kidding of course. :D)

I graduated propulsion engineering "A" school at Great Mistakes in '88 and served aboard the USS Canopus as a BT. Yep, I admit ... I joined the Navy because I wanted adventure. My best friend and I joined together out of high school. He ended up on a nuclear aircraft carrier (USS Eisenhower), I ended up on a sub tender. Can we say ... "envy?"

Now here's the kicker -- I was a BT on a sub tender. Oh, you should've seen the look on the faces of the chiefs who handed out my orders to report to the Canopus. They were mystified and even a little hostile that I managed to get such a plum assignment right out of school (not that I asked for it ... ). Truth is, I wanted sea duty, but instead I ended up as a propulsion engineer on board a ship that never went anywhere. While I was stuck in mosquito-infested King's Bay in total isolation (my CO even said at orientation, "If you don't have a car on this base, you're f****d."), my best friend was sending me pictures from Spain, Italy, Turkey, Israel, Egypt, etc. etc.

I'm sure you can imagine the torture I had to endure, being the new snipe on a stationary ship. Lots of down time ... and lots of down time = being yanked around by every passing ensign to do odd jobs. Things like chipping ice out of the walk-in freezers, digging up dirt from in between floor tiles, and hauling garbage all the way from the galley to the dumpsters on shore (Canopus was a large ship) made me question the wisdom of enlisting. My favorite was washing dishes. I didn't wash the plates and utensils. I washed the big stuff ... I worked in a little cubicle by myself with two huge sinks filled with scalding water heated to Navy regulations temperatures. Sometimes there were no dishes to wash, so I'd lean on the counter and read my copy of Red Storm Rising ... until a commander wandered in and chewed me out for reading on duty. After snatching my book and waving it around while dressing me down, he suddenly calmed and asked, "Hey, can I borrow this book?" I said of course he could (he was a commander, after all) ... he didn't return it for 3 months, and since it was a library book, I got saddled with overdue fines (the commander later apologized and paid the fines, though, so that worked out okay).

The only time the Canopus ever put to sea was, aggravatingly enough, the very same weekend Saffron was flying all the way to the US from England to visit. There was no warning at all that we were sailing that weekend. I woke up that morning looking forward to picking her up at the Orlando airport only to find myself 300 miles off the coast of Georgia. No cell phones, emails, or texting back then. Saffron spent all weekend at the airport thinking I had stood her up, then flew back to England that Sunday (to the tune of around $2,000 in wasted British pounds). That incident damn near ended our relationship, and is probably why I'm still only her fiance and not husband (I just got thumped in the head for saying that, too).

I started to wonder if this duty station was some sort of punishment. Here's why I thought that:

One of the final evals for graduating "A" school was to draw from memory some schematics of a ship's power plant. This was a pass/fail endeavor ... if you didn't do it right, you failed. Period. As it turns out, the copy of the schematic I had contained a mistake. As anyone who has ever made a photocopy can attest to, if you have a second sheet of paper beneath the one you're copying ... and they aren't perfectly aligned ... you'll get a line on the copy where the top sheet ends and the bottom sheet begins. Well, that's exactly how pipes are depicted on the schematic ... a line. My copy contained an extra "pipe" that wasn't supposed to be there due to a copying mistake.

So I memorized the schematic with the extra "pipe," drew it that way during the eval, and promptly failed. This little controversy went all the way to the commander of the base, who finally understood the screw up and passed me ... but sometimes I still wonder if I was sent to No Man's Land because of that.

Yep ... I was looking for adventure and found it in all the wrong ways. I ended up getting a medical discharge (records say honorable) some time later when I took my annual physical and dismally failed the eye exam. I was below what they would accept even with corrected vision, so they had to pull me out of engineering, which was a breach of contract. They gave me the opportunity to either a) strike for another rate (which would be at least another year of training while chipping more ice, hauling more garbage, and washing more dishes) or b) go home.

Can you guess which one I picked?

The Navy turned out to be a bitter disappointment since I didn't get anything that I had hoped to receive from it, but I don't blame the Navy. It was just bad luck, bad timing, and bad eyesight that did me in.

Anyhow, take care, folks, and thanks for reading.

Hi:

Well it's a good thing that Saffron forgave you LOL! Oh and remember treat her right or else face the wrath of several of her email admirers who will defend her honor on foot or horse with pistol or sword.;) Women who know and like military history are a true rarity.

[Kyle Holgate]

Kyle:

You would think that with the high tech nature of the navy, that instead of giving you guys silly make work projects, they would either conduct drills or training exercises in your particular field. Discipline is one thing, but they have a word for this stuff in the Army and its called Chicken Sh*t. The problme with peactime militaries is that they have nothing else to keep theire personnel busy and this gives the officers a chance to show how tight a ship they run. Reminds me of the Victorian era RN where spit and polish was valued more than initiative and professional expertise.

I love the drills and wargame stuff when we could do them. I am guessing that with today's technology ships can run their own situations with all the computers they have, back in my day (Ack!, I sound like a geezer) we couldn't. Of course anyone in the enlisted ranks at least will skate when they can (a.k.a. goof off) so it was part of the duty of the higher ups to find useful things to do, but if nothing really useful is around my philosophy was to let-em skate! I left as an E6 (first class Petty officer) having gained that leve in 5 years time. I tried hard to be a good manager and think I was. I didn't order BS work just to kill time if I could help it and covered my guys asses as much as I could. In response to that "my" crew would bust their asses and work hard for me when I really needed them to do it and I could trust them. Luckily for me I had a command structure that let me do things laregly "my" way - but that changed with a new Chief (E7) over me and a new Senior Chief (E8) over all - who was an Operations Specialist (OS). They run the radars and plot courses and plot enemy/unknowns and what not. Because he was an OS and I was an EW he decided to make it his job to F*## with me.

I got back at him and the Chief though! I decided to leave the navy and it turned out my Division officer (lieutanant) was leaving too - both of us on the same day! He'd come and hang out in my "office" and we'd listen to the band Europe's song: The Final count down. Sr. Chief came in one time and started to bitch his head off at me about my short timer attitude and neglected to look further around the corner to see Lt. Carver! It was priceless when the LT stuck his head around the corner and said "Senior chief, shut the Frack up and leave Petty Officer Holgate the frack alone". Ah, what a moment that was! (using Battlestar Galactica language here to replace the 4 letter word actually used).

I ordered a subsription to PlayGirl magazine for my Chief when I left the ship, care of the ships office so everyone would know. I guess it worked like a charm, as Chief got lots of ribbing about that from everyone who could. I think more than a few probably figured out where the subscription came from, but I was long gone and a civilian.

Funny thing - I miss it all at times. I miss the job, and I really miss being at sea. I loved the stars at night and watching sunsets and sunrises (sometimes both in a row). I loved the sun on rough water with white caps as far as the eye could see and the indescribable beauty of tropical water with green islands jutting up and cloud flecked skies. Sigh. If only they could have just let me do my $#*! job!

[djcyclone]

DJ:

I think you have on a very good point here. No matter how hard the navy tries to glamorize the service, this still is a lot of grunt work and exhausting labor on even the most sophisticated ship. You can either hack or it get out. Officers might have a different perspective (Scott what do you think?) because they intend to make it a career. What did you do at JAG?



I was at JAG on limited duty, after a car accident had destroyed my body. It was the last post waiting medical discharge, and I hated it. I actually enjoyed being on a ship and going out to sea. My job was a Quartermaster, so their is not alot of things for us to do on shore.

Anyway I simply filled out claims for soilders who had moved, and during the move their furnature was damaged. The Military pays for the damage and then sues the moving company later for reimbursment. In the last couple of months at that post I was moved to working directly for the attorneys. I would listen to recordings of trials and type everything that was said. That job was not that bad, but the first sucked in so manny ways I cannot even dare to go into detail. On top of that, when I first started I was working with another guy who was the same rank, but had been at the post longer so he was in charge. This guy was a cry baby, and tatled on everything that I did. He was a complete suck up to the command staff, and oh my god I hated it, but what can you do.

[djcyclone]

I almost forgot my favorite job on my ship. This job tops all of em. When it rains you should go out and sweep the deck so that no puddles are on the ship.

Doesn't this ship go out to see, and get hit by wave after wave during storms. What is a puddle going to do. I would hate for the Captain or XO to have to go around a puddle. That would be way to much work. I would much rather sit out in the poring rain and use a broom to sweep the water off of the deck, even though it is raining hard enough that the job is completely in vein.

SWEAPERS, SWEAPERS, SWEAPERS. ALL DUTY PERSONEL REPORT TO THE QUARTER DECK FOR SWEAPER DUTY.

[djcyclone]

One last thing, when it comes to the commercials of the Navy.

I think they should take up a commercial that is similar to the Cingular Phone commercials.

"CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW"

I say this because they always want test everything over and over and over and over. My theory is, that some of the systems that we have will only not work when they are actually needed, because they will be worn out from all of the test by that time.

[Ed Rotondaro]

I was at JAG on limited duty, after a car accident had destroyed my body. It was the last post waiting medical discharge, and I hated it. I actually enjoyed being on a ship and going out to sea. My job was a Quartermaster, so their is not alot of things for us to do on shore.

Anyway I simply filled out claims for soilders who had moved, and during the move their furnature was damaged. The Military pays for the damage and then sues the moving company later for reimbursment. In the last couple of months at that post I was moved to working directly for the attorneys. I would listen to recordings of trials and type everything that was said. That job was not that bad, but the first sucked in so manny ways I cannot even dare to go into detail. On top of that, when I first started I was working with another guy who was the same rank, but had been at the post longer so he was in charge. This guy was a cry baby, and tatled on everything that I did. He was a complete suck up to the command staff, and oh my god I hated it, but what can you do.

DJ:

I hope that you are recovering from that accident. Sounds like the Navy is a lot like the civilian end of government, i.e. lots of long term idiots who won't share their knowledge and then retire and leave their subordinates in the lurch.

[john964]

Hey lets have some fun ragging on nuggets, you know those moronic officers who think they know everything but 99% of the time, they haven't got a clue on how to run things. That is stupid Ensign or Sub Leftenant if you happen to have been in the RN.

My first one is when I and my crew were orderd to paint the hand rails and and main deck bulkheads with latexs paint in a driving rain(IIRC it rained almost a inch that day). Talk about a mess we had puddles of haze gray paint all over the deck that had run down the bulkheads. Man we really hated ENS Peabrain aka ENS Peterson naturaly he blamed me and my crew when the XO laid into him.

[djcyclone]

I got a great story for know it all officers.

We are heading to the Caribean (I think St. Thomas, but I cannot remember for sure). Anyway before the ship ever leaves port, or enters port we have a navigation briefing. All of the Quatermasters have to attend this meeting, and a good portion of the officer crew is there as well. Lots of people do lots of work to prepare for this thing, by figuring tides, and determining exact course changes and the whole works.

We are ahead of schedule, and and on course, and I am standing watch. Only a month or two earlier we had a new Leutinant JG stationed on the ship. He had come from a Frigate, and he did have the attitude that he knew it all. He was a great guy on the side, and easy to get along with, but when it came to opperations you could not tell this guy what to do, cause he already knew. He and another Ensign where standing watch as Officer of the Deck. They had to stand together because none of them had been qualified for that watch yet.

Anyway we are approaching the destination at about 25 knots. We reach a point where we are supposed to slow down to about 12 knots and just cruise in casually. I go to the Leutinant and inform him of where we are and recommend a speed change. He says he understands and wants to keep going at full speed. Now there are OS's in CIC who are supposed to check on my work as the Quartermaster. Normally we do not talk to one another, because they have no idea what they are doing, and I normally just laugh at them when they second guess me, but this was the only time that we actually agreed on something. They kept calling up asking why we where not slowing down. I confirmed, and said that I had told the officer of the deck, but he wants to keep going.

We where getting into vary shallow water, and speed was not the best thing at the moment. I just continued to do my job, and take fixes making sure we where still safe. To make a long story short, we ended up calling navigation detail about 5 hours early. Lots of people had to be woke up (INCLUDING THE CAPTAIN AND XO). They where not happy, to top it all off we had to stop and wait, because we where supposed to pick up the harbor pilot at a specified time. We just sat their for 3 hours hoping the pilot would show up early. The pilot was not happy either.

We pulled into port without incident, but the chances of a mistake had been increased substantially because people where tired and fatigued. The Leutinant JG had basically thrown out everything that was coverd in the Navigation Briefing, and decided he would just wing it. I did get in trouble (only a slap on the hand and do not do that again) because I had not called the Navigator up to the bridge. She was just a Leutinant JG also, but would have been able to straighten everything out since she holds rank when dealing with Navigation.

The Leutinant JG and Ensign where due to go in front of the Captain a week later, and recieve their verbal quiz making them qualified for Officer of the deck. The Captain was pissed to be nice, and he asked both of them question that he knew they could not answer. He flunked both of them and made them start from scratch.

[Rick]

We just sat their for 3 hours hoping the pilot would show up early. The pilot was not happy either.

Reminds me of all the times we sailed in circles in sight of Waikiki beach for more than 12 hours cause we arrived back early at Hawaii, cause Elvis (the civilian whos only job seemed to be to operate the forklift that moved the brow to the side of the ship) only worked 9 to 5.


Hey lets have some fun ragging on nuggets, you know those moronic officers who think they know everything but 99% of the time, they haven't got a clue on how to run things.

The ensigns we got were not bad, usually with the right language one could steer then away from the more moronic ideas or their attempts to do something.

Its the Officers who were former enlisted that were awful, cause they know just enough to be dangerous.

[Kyle Holgate]

In the USN it's ensigns and 2nd lieutenants.

Some of my favorite times was when a boot ensign would get into it with the Senior chief of the ship. Technically yes, he can tell the Sr.C what to do and has to get a yes sir in response. When the butt heads though it can be pretty funny as the SrChief dresses him down in a fully respectful manner that doesn't break any rules - then the XO comes and jumps on the baby ensigns head and tells him to listen to the Sr. Chief as he was probably in the navy when the Ensign was in diapers!

[asnrobert]

Robert:

I remember that skit, it was perfectly placed to counter the current Navy commericals about it not being a job, it's an adventure!

On the Casimir Pulaski, the yeoman had one of those Navy bumper stickers with that slogan in their office. They had cut it and rearanged the words so it read, "It's not an adventure, it's just a job."

[asnrobert]

In the USN it's ensigns and 2nd lieutenants.

Some of my favorite times was when a boot ensign would get into it with the Senior chief of the ship. Technically yes, he can tell the Sr.C what to do and has to get a yes sir in response. When the butt heads though it can be pretty funny as the SrChief dresses him down in a fully respectful manner that doesn't break any rules - then the XO comes and jumps on the baby ensigns head and tells him to listen to the Sr. Chief as he was probably in the navy when the Ensign was in diapers!

When I was in sub school in 1984, the command Master Chief there had been in 40 years (had ten gold hashmarks on his uniform). There was a story going around about him where one day he passed a couple ensigns without saluting. The ensigns stopped him and asked why he didn't salute. He handed them a quarter and told them to "call their mommies and tell them they met a real sailor."

Speaking of ex-enlisted men who became officers, on the Georgia we had an ensign who had been an ex-ET. he was a nice enough guy, but not cut out to be a submarine officer. Once while diving officer, we were supposed to be at periscope depth, but we were almost on the surface (our surface draft was 36 feet, and our depth gauges read 46; one of the watchstanders in the control room jokingly asked if he wanted the bridge rigged for surface). The captain was in the control room, and growled "Get us down!" This ensign flooded 90,000 lbs of water into the trim tanks (even for a big Trident sub that's alot of water). The helmsmen/planesmen knew what was coming and put full rise on the planes. When we reached 150 feet, the ensign reported that we were at our ordered depth. The captain snapped, "no you're not, you're going through it." We sank to 400 feet before we stopped our descent. From what I understand, he flunked his OOD quals and the last I saw him, was working in the supply building on base.

Another time on the Georgia we had an officer from the other crew standing OOD watch as part of his quals while we were in REFTRA (refresher training). We were submerged with our radio buoy out, but we were doing about 20 knots, too fast for the buoy. Radio reported losing comms. The Captain was in the control room, saw the sub's speed and said, "slow down." Most people with a lick of sense would have simply rung up a lower bell, but this officer rang up BACK FULL. As a result the buoy cable got caught in the propeller, cutting it. The buoy sank (it was designed to scuttle itself if the cable was cut), but we spent the afternoon on the surface to look and make sure, and the night in port so divers could check the screw for damage.

[john964]

In the USN it's ensigns and 2nd lieutenants.

Some of my favorite times was when a boot ensign would get into it with the Senior chief of the ship. Technically yes, he can tell the Sr.C what to do and has to get a yes sir in response. When the butt heads though it can be pretty funny as the SrChief dresses him down in a fully respectful manner that doesn't break any rules - then the XO comes and jumps on the baby ensigns head and tells him to listen to the Sr. Chief as he was probably in the navy when the Ensign was in diapers!

Not quite it Ensigns and Lieutenant Jr Grade everywhere else its 2nd Lieutenant and 1st Lieutenant.

I had to butt heads with a Ensign once during a UNREP. I was a newly qualified Rig Captain (IIRC second or third time) when this brand new Ensign (he had been aboard about a week)who was acting as rig safety officer under instruction started asking me and my riggers stupid questions(the rig safety officer had to go somewhere) and distracting me and my riggers. I kept trying to blow him off and the riggers were trying to do the same. This went on for several minuets untill I told him to shut the F*** up unless there was safety concern and then bring it to my attention. After we finished the UNREP he came up to me and started to rip me a new one, but I went right back at him with both barrels, during all this the XO had walked up and was standing behind me. When I was done I turned around and walked right into the XO. I thought I was in BIG BIG trouble, but the XO just told me to leave. He then proceeded to really really chew on the Ensign. The XO found me later that day and explained that he had observed the whole thing from the bridge wing and had come down to chew on the Ensign when I was laying into him. He also warned me not to do that again or I could face some real trouble.

[Scott Chisholm]

Question: What is the difference between an Ensign (O-1) and a Seaman (E-3)?

Answer: The Seaman's been promoted twice. :D

____

The two most dangerous things in the Navy are an Ensign with an idea and a JG with a plan.... :eek:

[asnrobert]

When I was in the Navy, someone had drawn a cartoon of a master chief holding two small boys in his arms, one with an officer's cap and sucking on a bottle, and the other with a warrant officer's cap and holding a toy sailboat. The caption read something to the effect of "Master Chief: nursemaid to ensigns and nanny to warrant officers."


I always thought the warrant officer was a glorified chief.

[djcyclone]

My personal opinion when it comes to rank, is that a chief and an Ensign should be equal. Lets face it, it takes at least 7 years to make the rank of chief, and that is reffering to a hot shot sailer, who is jumping rank like there is no tomorow. Most people take longer than that. Now an Ensign takes only 4 years of college and they are allowed into the fleet. Forget the whole warrent officer thing, just make all enlisted personel capable of becoming officers by simply staying with the game long enough.

I do not know if the people who where allowed that could ever rise to the rank of commanding officer, but I guess it is possible. Even officers have to spcifically enter into the command program. Some do not and just stay with whatever they chose to do.

Just my two cents, but one of the things that really buged me in the Navy was that according to regulation, a Master Chief is expected to solute an Ensign the day they Graduate from whatever school they attended. This is sickening, because the Master chief has been where the metal meets the meat. The Ensign has only read about what happens.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Reminds me of all the times we sailed in circles in sight of Waikiki beach for more than 12 hours cause we arrived back early at Hawaii, cause Elvis (the civilian whos only job seemed to be to operate the forklift that moved the brow to the side of the ship) only worked 9 to 5.



The ensigns we got were not bad, usually with the right language one could steer then away from the more moronic ideas or their attempts to do something.

Its the Officers who were former enlisted that were awful, cause they know just enough to be dangerous.

Rick:

You guys are scaring me LOL! I certainly hope our adversaries have as many clueless officers as the USN seems to.:D

[Ed Rotondaro]

In the USN it's ensigns and 2nd lieutenants.

Some of my favorite times was when a boot ensign would get into it with the Senior chief of the ship. Technically yes, he can tell the Sr.C what to do and has to get a yes sir in response. When the butt heads though it can be pretty funny as the SrChief dresses him down in a fully respectful manner that doesn't break any rules - then the XO comes and jumps on the baby ensigns head and tells him to listen to the Sr. Chief as he was probably in the navy when the Ensign was in diapers!

Kyle:

Master and Sr Chiefs and master Sgts. run the Army, Navy and Marines, and only the generals and admirals will admit it.

[Ed Rotondaro]

When I was in sub school in 1984, the command Master Chief there had been in 40 years (had ten gold hashmarks on his uniform). There was a story going around about him where one day he passed a couple ensigns without saluting. The ensigns stopped him and asked why he didn't salute. He handed them a quarter and told them to "call their mommies and tell them they met a real sailor."

Speaking of ex-enlisted men who became officers, on the Georgia we had an ensign who had been an ex-ET. he was a nice enough guy, but not cut out to be a submarine officer. Once while diving officer, we were supposed to be at periscope depth, but we were almost on the surface (our surface draft was 36 feet, and our depth gauges read 46; one of the watchstanders in the control room jokingly asked if he wanted the bridge rigged for surface). The captain was in the control room, and growled "Get us down!" This ensign flooded 90,000 lbs of water into the trim tanks (even for a big Trident sub that's alot of water). The helmsmen/planesmen knew what was coming and put full rise on the planes. When we reached 150 feet, the ensign reported that we were at our ordered depth. The captain snapped, "no you're not, you're going through it." We sank to 400 feet before we stopped our descent. From what I understand, he flunked his OOD quals and the last I saw him, was working in the supply building on base.

Another time on the Georgia we had an officer from the other crew standing OOD watch as part of his quals while we were in REFTRA (refresher training). We were submerged with our radio buoy out, but we were doing about 20 knots, too fast for the buoy. Radio reported losing comms. The Captain was in the control room, saw the sub's speed and said, "slow down." Most people with a lick of sense would have simply rung up a lower bell, but this officer rang up BACK FULL. As a result the buoy cable got caught in the propeller, cutting it. The buoy sank (it was designed to scuttle itself if the cable was cut), but we spent the afternoon on the surface to look and make sure, and the night in port so divers could check the screw for damage.

Robert:

It's not good to screw up in front of the Capt. eh?;)

[Ed Rotondaro]

Not quite it Ensigns and Lieutenant Jr Grade everywhere else its 2nd Lieutenant and 1st Lieutenant.

I had to butt heads with a Ensign once during a UNREP. I was a newly qualified Rig Captain (IIRC second or third time) when this brand new Ensign (he had been aboard about a week)who was acting as rig safety officer under instruction started asking me and my riggers stupid questions(the rig safety officer had to go somewhere) and distracting me and my riggers. I kept trying to blow him off and the riggers were trying to do the same. This went on for several minuets untill I told him to shut the F*** up unless there was safety concern and then bring it to my attention. After we finished the UNREP he came up to me and started to rip me a new one, but I went right back at him with both barrels, during all this the XO had walked up and was standing behind me. When I was done I turned around and walked right into the XO. I thought I was in BIG BIG trouble, but the XO just told me to leave. He then proceeded to really really chew on the Ensign. The XO found me later that day and explained that he had observed the whole thing from the bridge wing and had come down to chew on the Ensign when I was laying into him. He also warned me not to do that again or I could face some real trouble.

John:

Other major rule of the navy, the XO is usually the smartest officer on the ship and along with the Master Chief runs the show. A good XO can save you from a disasterous CO.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Question: What is the difference between an Ensign (O-1) and a Seaman (E-3)?

Answer: The Seaman's been promoted twice. :D

____

The two most dangerous things in the Navy are an Ensign with an idea and a JG with a plan.... :eek:

Scott:

You're gonna miss all this sh*t aren't you? Love you bro!:D

[Ed Rotondaro]

When I was in the Navy, someone had drawn a cartoon of a master chief holding two small boys in his arms, one with an officer's cap and sucking on a bottle, and the other with a warrant officer's cap and holding a toy sailboat. The caption read something to the effect of "Master Chief: nursemaid to ensigns and nanny to warrant officers."


I always thought the warrant officer was a glorified chief.

Robert:

That's too funny LOL!:D

[john964]

Rick:

You guys are scaring me LOL! I certainly hope our adversaries have as many clueless officers as the USN seems to.:D
Ed, The stupidity of JO's is pretty much universal. I bet our friends from across the Atlantic who have served in the British armed forces can probable confirm this. But there is always the exception to the rule. We had a new Ensign who on his first day of taking command of my division said 'Guy's I don't know about anything about what you do, but I am going to learn what it is you do.' And he did exactly that. I personaly saw him studying the Bo'son 3&2 manual several times. The Bo'son 3&2 is our rates bible. He was the only officer we had I ever saw doing this. When he left the command he was going to command a small navy reserve center in the mid-west. I ran into him just before I was discharged and he had just taken command of USS Safegaurd

[djcyclone]

The U.S. Navy does have more than its share of idiots. When I was in we played three war games. We lost all three, not because my ship messed up, but because the guys on our team where dummer than a box of rocks.

First one was simple, we played against a Canadian Destroyer, and they had a chopper, so this one does not count. They saw us before we saw them.

Second one was helping the Kennedy Battle Group get prepped for deployment. We where the bad guys and we had one sub on our side. We cornered two auxileries and a Frigate and a Cruiser. On our approach, the OOD got so much information out of the Kennedy Battle Group that it was sickning. We knew what course they where on, what speed they where doing, and how manny ships they had. We even knew what their destination was. We pulled along side them at less than a mile distance. We where extremely out gunned, but an enemy ship might decide to do a suicide run and sacrifice temselves for more kills. Anyway our sub spots the entire thing, and kills the entire convoy including us.

Third we where in the Caribbean. We where playing against two los angeles class subs. Our fleet consisted of us and a ticonderoga cruiser. Simple, we find them before they find us and we kill them. Even without the use of a chopper we mannaged to find a sub and kill it. Our commrades on the other hand with the help of a chopper mannaged to shoot themselves and us. God I love working with morons.

[asnrobert]

When I was on the John Adams, we were in the Caribbean off of Andros Island, home of AUTEC (Atlantic Undersea Testing and Evaluation Center) for torpedo fire control exercises. There is a deep underwater trench called the Tongue of the Ocean where the exercises are conducted. A small motor vessel would launch these submersible drones that we would try to intercept with our torpedoes (which had no warheads). We aced our exercises, partly because we "cheated." In between exercises, the fire control party would track the firing vessel so when the target was launched, we knew where it was, plus since the area was relatively narrow, we had an idea what course the drone would be taking it. It so happened we also had a fire control team from a Holy Loch based boomer for their training (since it was too far away for their sub to sail to and back). Our fire control team was in the control room and gave them the solutions, but they wouldn't take it, and as a result they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

And then of course, there is the politics. While I was on the John Adams on our way to AUTEC, we were supposed to meet the Lewis and Clark (known to the fleet as the "Lost and Confused") and we were to practice tracking each other and firing water slugs (torpedo tubes filled with water) when we had a solution. We found her first and fired the first shot. I think we fired a couple more water slugs before the Lewis and Clark tracked us and fired one in return. The squadron commander was onboard the Lewis and Clark, incidentally. However, it was the Lost and Confused which got the battle 'E' since her skipper was in tight with the squadron commander, while the JA's CO was on the outs.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Ed, The stupidity of JO's is pretty much universal. I bet our friends from across the Atlantic who have served in the British armed forces can probable confirm this. But there is always the exception to the rule. We had a new Ensign who on his first day of taking command of my division said 'Guy's I don't know about anything about what you do, but I am going to learn what it is you do.' And he did exactly that. I personaly saw him studying the Bo'son 3&2 manual several times. The Bo'son 3&2 is our rates bible. He was the only officer we had I ever saw doing this. When he left the command he was going to command a small navy reserve center in the mid-west. I ran into him just before I was discharged and he had just taken command of USS Safegaurd

John:

Nice to see talent and hard work work rewarded in this life.;)

[Ed Rotondaro]

The U.S. Navy does have more than its share of idiots. When I was in we played three war games. We lost all three, not because my ship messed up, but because the guys on our team where dummer than a box of rocks.

First one was simple, we played against a Canadian Destroyer, and they had a chopper, so this one does not count. They saw us before we saw them.

Second one was helping the Kennedy Battle Group get prepped for deployment. We where the bad guys and we had one sub on our side. We cornered two auxileries and a Frigate and a Cruiser. On our approach, the OOD got so much information out of the Kennedy Battle Group that it was sickning. We knew what course they where on, what speed they where doing, and how manny ships they had. We even knew what their destination was. We pulled along side them at less than a mile distance. We where extremely out gunned, but an enemy ship might decide to do a suicide run and sacrifice temselves for more kills. Anyway our sub spots the entire thing, and kills the entire convoy including us.

Third we where in the Caribbean. We where playing against two los angeles class subs. Our fleet consisted of us and a ticonderoga cruiser. Simple, we find them before they find us and we kill them. Even without the use of a chopper we mannaged to find a sub and kill it. Our commrades on the other hand with the help of a chopper mannaged to shoot themselves and us. God I love working with morons.

DJ:

You know what they say "Doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers visit theirs in prison, wargamers just reset the board and try again". This is your daily dose of cynicism (hey it's either me or Kurt and he's busy):rolleyes:

[Ed Rotondaro]

When I was on the John Adams, we were in the Caribbean off of Andros Island, home of AUTEC (Atlantic Undersea Testing and Evaluation Center) for torpedo fire control exercises. There is a deep underwater trench called the Tongue of the Ocean where the exercises are conducted. A small motor vessel would launch these submersible drones that we would try to intercept with our torpedoes (which had no warheads). We aced our exercises, partly because we "cheated." In between exercises, the fire control party would track the firing vessel so when the target was launched, we knew where it was, plus since the area was relatively narrow, we had an idea what course the drone would be taking it. It so happened we also had a fire control team from a Holy Loch based boomer for their training (since it was too far away for their sub to sail to and back). Our fire control team was in the control room and gave them the solutions, but they wouldn't take it, and as a result they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

And then of course, there is the politics. While I was on the John Adams on our way to AUTEC, we were supposed to meet the Lewis and Clark (known to the fleet as the "Lost and Confused") and we were to practice tracking each other and firing water slugs (torpedo tubes filled with water) when we had a solution. We found her first and fired the first shot. I think we fired a couple more water slugs before the Lewis and Clark tracked us and fired one in return. The squadron commander was onboard the Lewis and Clark, incidentally. However, it was the Lost and Confused which got the battle 'E' since her skipper was in tight with the squadron commander, while the JA's CO was on the outs.

Robert:

It's not what you know, it's who you know and the pictures you have of them in compromising circumstances. How did we ever win WWII?:rolleyes:

[Kyle Holgate]

Caught an interesting "reality show" last night on the Military channel. It covered the building of USS Harry Truman, then followed her on her initial then acceptance trials. I was keen to see some of the side protection system but dang it, they didn't show it - imagine that. In fact they pretty much jumped from kiel laying to nearly final fitting out. Didn't show the reactors going in or how the sides were put together. Dang.
In any case I found the show quite interesting - wish I could remember the name of it. I think I killed off the brain cell holding that info though, Full sail had a new beer out that I had to try!

[Ed Rotondaro]

Caught an interesting "reality show" last night on the Military channel. It covered the building of USS Harry Truman, then followed her on her initial then acceptance trials. I was keen to see some of the side protection system but dang it, they didn't show it - imagine that. In fact they pretty much jumped from kiel laying to nearly final fitting out. Didn't show the reactors going in or how the sides were put together. Dang.
In any case I found the show quite interesting - wish I could remember the name of it. I think I killed off the brain cell holding that info though, Full sail had a new beer out that I had to try!

Kyle:

I imagine they had some strict security regarding what could be filmed.

[Kyle Holgate]

Kyle:

I imagine they had some strict security regarding what could be filmed.

Yes, I expect so - and as usual they wouldn't say what the max speed of the ship is. I've heard a lot of speculation over the years about it and I have a fair idea, I think - but the stuff is classified for a reason I guess, so I'll leave it alone. I'd love to know what the modern thinking is on torpedo side protection though, and how it has changed and evolved since the BB days.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Yes, I expect so - and as usual they wouldn't say what the max speed of the ship is. I've heard a lot of speculation over the years about it and I have a fair idea, I think - but the stuff is classified for a reason I guess, so I'll leave it alone. I'd love to know what the modern thinking is on torpedo side protection though, and how it has changed and evolved since the BB days.

Kyle:

You wonder if there is more emphasis on under bottom protection due to the use of wire guided torpedoes and the desire to try and snap the ship in half. Of course the corollary is still protecting against wave skimming anti-shipping missiles striking the side or the water line.

[Kyle Holgate]

Kyle:

You wonder if there is more emphasis on under bottom protection due to the use of wire guided torpedoes and the desire to try and snap the ship in half. Of course the corollary is still protecting against wave skimming anti-shipping missiles striking the side or the water line.

I'd expect they have to protect against many threats: "down the pipe" that could come in from 70 degrees or greater (or ones with terminal pop-up) all the way to sea skimmers that came in right on the deck. Then they'd have to be concerned with more conventional torpedoes and mines that may explode against or near the side all the way to the ones that explode under the kiel. Sheesh, no problem!

[djcyclone]

I mentioned this ealier in a post about the games development. I have heard of a new deffensive system on the U.S. Carriers only. It is similar too missile defense, but is actually torpedo deffense. It is a torpedo that is launched to intercept and either hit head on, or explode in the near vicinity of an incoming torpedo. This is meant to either completly destroy the torpedo, or cause enough damage by exploding near it, so that it cannot make it to the carrier and do what it was built to do.

The entire project is topsecret from what I understand. They have had the technology to do this for some time, but the idea was always just to run from the torpedo and use the Carriers exceptional speed to get out side of the torpedoes range. Now they are finally puting recources into this project due to the fact that torpedoes are getting faster, and more accurate, not to mention the fact that submarines are getting quiter than ever before. I recently read a document about the Kilo class submarines, and U.S. Submarine crews have nicknamed them the Black Hole for their ability to dissapear when they are right in front of the tracking submarine. If they can get away from a sonar crew on a submarine, then how easy can they sneak into a surface convoy and launch a suprise attack.

Active Sonar would catch them, but surface ships do not run with active sonar pinging away unless they think their is a nearby threat. It kills to many fish, and enviromentalist get jumpy when the U.S. Navy runs around pinging away.

[Kyle Holgate]

I mentioned this ealier in a post about the games development. I have heard of a new deffensive system on the U.S. Carriers only. It is similar too missile defense, but is actually torpedo deffense. It is a torpedo that is launched to intercept and either hit head on, or explode in the near vicinity of an incoming torpedo. This is meant to either completly destroy the torpedo, or cause enough damage by exploding near it, so that it cannot make it to the carrier and do what it was built to do.

The entire project is topsecret from what I understand. They have had the technology to do this for some time, but the idea was always just to run from the torpedo and use the Carriers exceptional speed to get out side of the torpedoes range. Now they are finally puting recources into this project due to the fact that torpedoes are getting faster, and more accurate, not to mention the fact that submarines are getting quiter than ever before. I recently read a document about the Kilo class submarines, and U.S. Submarine crews have nicknamed them the Black Hole for their ability to dissapear when they are right in front of the tracking submarine. If they can get away from a sonar crew on a submarine, then how easy can they sneak into a surface convoy and launch a suprise attack.

Active Sonar would catch them, but surface ships do not run with active sonar pinging away unless they think their is a nearby threat. It kills to many fish, and enviromentalist get jumpy when the U.S. Navy runs around pinging away.

I left the Navy in 1989 and was aware of an anti-torpedo system back then, but won't go into the few details I knew. In any case, I am sure they've got something now better than Nixi!
One problem with the active sonar they're having is training. Since it was found out that it harms whales the Navy is really restricted on where and when they can use it. To be sure I'm all for not harming whales if we can help it, but on the flip side if you can't train using active sonar in peacetime how the hell are you gonna be proficient at it if a war breaks out? Simulations are fine, and probably much better now than they used to be - but they don't do the trick at least in the ESM field (I was an EW), and Sonar is even more complicated.

[Ed Rotondaro]

I'd expect they have to protect against many threats: "down the pipe" that could come in from 70 degrees or greater (or ones with terminal pop-up) all the way to sea skimmers that came in right on the deck. Then they'd have to be concerned with more conventional torpedoes and mines that may explode against or near the side all the way to the ones that explode under the kiel. Sheesh, no problem!

Kyle:

Considering that the carrier is the center piece of the modern naval task force, I would have to believe that its design stresses both functionality and survivability. I have always wondered about what provisions there are for reactor safety in case of heavy damage. Does the reactor shut down (scram?) automatically? I can understand that most of what we're talking about here is either restricted or classified with good reason, so I won't press anyone for details.

[Ed Rotondaro]

I left the Navy in 1989 and was aware of an anti-torpedo system back then, but won't go into the few details I knew. In any case, I am sure they've got something now better than Nixi!
One problem with the active sonar they're having is training. Since it was found out that it harms whales the Navy is really restricted on where and when they can use it. To be sure I'm all for not harming whales if we can help it, but on the flip side if you can't train using active sonar in peacetime how the hell are you gonna be proficient at it if a war breaks out? Simulations are fine, and probably much better now than they used to be - but they don't do the trick at least in the ESM field (I was an EW), and Sonar is even more complicated.

Kyle and DJ:

Dennis mentioned something about this sort of system, analogous perhaps to an anti-missile system, awhile back. Obviously it's very hush hush stuff.

[Kyle Holgate]

Kyle and DJ:

Dennis mentioned something about this sort of system, analogous perhaps to an anti-missile system, awhile back. Obviously it's very hush hush stuff.

Yeah, just speculation is probably of concern in some channels. It's hard not to, but it's probably best to stick with historical designs. I have no desire to have nice men in dark glasses drop in and talk with me (or use the flashy thing on me).

[djcyclone]

Yeah, just speculation is probably of concern in some channels. It's hard not to, but it's probably best to stick with historical designs. I have no desire to have nice men in dark glasses drop in and talk with me (or use the flashy thing on me).



You watch too many movies. :D

[Kyle Holgate]

You watch too many movies. :D

That you even knew what I was talking about confirms the same for you! ;)

[Ed Rotondaro]

That you even knew what I was talking about confirms the same for you! ;)

Kyle:

Nice parry old boy!:D