Database Editor; using models from the NWP

[Captain Obvious]

Hi folks,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have Fleet Command (ie the newer version) and am using the Fleet Command Database Editor 5.1.2 - is there a newer version available?

The problem I'm having here is that I'm trying to update the databases with things like the Arleigh Burke FIIA, Super Hornet, AIM-132 ASRAAM etc. However whenever I try to edit the equipment that a country has, it stuffs up. For example I edited the database so that Australia has access to all six Collins-class boats instead of just three, but then when I go to edit something for the USA, the Collins-class SSK turns up! Not useful.

Am I doing something wrong here?

Second question - I've used the NWP before and whilst I like it, I've always felt it over-complicated the game. For my own personal taste, I really don't care about minor differences that the NWP takes into account, and I've always been big on personalising things for myself. On that note, is it possible to use just the models from the NWP and write in the database entries myself?

Thanks :-)

[Fleet Command CC]

Hello Captain Obvious.

Welcome to the NWS Forum. ;)

The Fleet Command Database Editor 5.1. is the lastest version and there won't be a update sorry about that.

May I ask which data base are you editing Stock files or NWP files?

About making your own mod with the NWP models, you can do this for person use only, i.e. you cannot release it has a mod!!! If you wanted to do this you would need permission from the NWP team which I'm part of.

[Saffron]

The issue concerning having the Collins class SSK showing up in the US entry is a common problem, and I've had it happen to me before in various ways. The db editor can sneak those errors in and you may not notice it until you start designing a scenario. I actually have a spreadsheet with every ship class and name in FC, including the ones I've added myself, so I know which ships belong where just in case I get that bug.

One way to cut down on, or even prevent, that error from happening is to only edit one country at a time. When you're done, save it, and completely exit the program. So, if you're working on an Australian edit, do not switch to, say, a Chinese edit without saving and exiting. It's a bit of a pain, but trying to figure out which ships were replaced via the bug is an even bigger one. Also, always make backups of your database folder. Do this often, so if something becomes so FUBARed that you can't figure out how to fix it, you can revert back to an earlier folder without losing all of your past edits.

[Captain Obvious]

Hi guys, thanks for the quick replies!

Fleet Command CC - this would be for my own personal use only. I'm a modder myself and have released mods for a number of games, inclusing Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, and the Star Wars Empire at War series, so I'm all too aware of the issues that come up with the use of someone else's materials. If I were to use just the models, how would I go about doing this? Would it just mean installing the mod and replacing the database files with the originals? Oh, and with the database issue, I'm using the vanilla files, not NWP.

Saffron - thanks for the advice. I did initially start editing without backing up, which is stupid of me because as a long time modder I should know better. I restored the files though so should be okay now. Would it be possible to get a look at your spreadsheet? Sounds like an extremely useful resource!

[Fleet Command CC]

Hi guys, thanks for the quick replies!

Fleet Command CC - this would be for my own personal use only. I'm a modder myself and have released mods for a number of games, inclusing Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, and the Star Wars Empire at War series, so I'm all too aware of the issues that come up with the use of someone else's materials. If I were to use just the models, how would I go about doing this? Would it just mean installing the mod and replacing the database files with the originals? Oh, and with the database issue, I'm using the vanilla files, not NWP.

Saffron - thanks for the advice. I did initially start editing without backing up, which is stupid of me because as a long time modder I should know better. I restored the files though so should be okay now. Would it be possible to get a look at your spreadsheet? Sounds like an extremely useful resource!

Hey Captain Obvious.

Thats good I'm glad you understand, :D there are a few way you can get the models.

The easest way is make a backup copy of the Fleet Command folder, then install NWP mod let it do its thing. Then go to the Graphic folder and find two files by the names of 3d.grp & 3d.ndx, next copy\paste these into Graphic of the Copy of Fleet Command. Now there is a problem with this mothed, by doing it this way you won't know the .J3D file names so, you would be better off doing it this way below.

Copy all the .J3D & .bmp files and also cmpUtil.exe and the NWP.bat into the Graphic of the Fleet Command Backup. Then rename the Fleet Command folder that has the NWP mod install (I dunno something like NWP V19.0 Release) and then change the copy of Fleet Command to you guess it Fleet Command.

Just one more thing to do is run the NWP.bat file and your good to go, now the real hard work is to be done now, making all the db records for all the new models you've just added. :cool:

I hope I haven't come a cross has 'Don't teach your grandmother\grandfather how to suck eggs' I always feel has if I'm doing this whenever I type anything like this.

Any problems let me know, by the way I agree with you about the NWP mod, one of the main things I miss is being able to change the weapon loadouts on the aircrafts within the game. I don't like the idea that a set number of planes with AAW\ASUW\STRIKE\SUW missions I would want to decide that within the game myself.

About your problem has Saffron as said this can happen sometime and there is little you can do about it, :( just wait and see the problem your going to have when you start making new records.

[Saffron]

Would it be possible to get a look at your spreadsheet? Sounds like an extremely useful resource!

Yep, you sure can. Keep in mind though that my listing has A LOT more ships in it, even more than NWP. If you're using vanilla FC, it will be cluttered with a lot of ships that won't be in your game. But if you want a copy of it, I can email it to you. Just need your addy. ;)

[Captain Obvious]

Fleet Command CC - I was thinking, would it be possible to just do the first method you described, but then just copy across the 3dobjects.3bd file from the NWP? That would give me the full listing of the 3D files right? I'm assuming of course that the NWP works in the same way that 'normal' modding of Fleet Command does, please correct me if I'm wrong. :)

[Fleet Command CC]

Fleet Command CC - I was thinking, would it be possible to just do the first method you described, but then just copy across the 3dobjects.3bd file from the NWP? That would give me the full listing of the 3D files right? I'm assuming of course that the NWP works in the same way that 'normal' modding of Fleet Command does, please correct me if I'm wrong. :)

Hey Captain Obvious.

Yes it would work, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone new to FC and NWP, I don't want lots of emails\posts saying you've made me mess up my game and computer. :( In your case being a fellow modder give it a shot, I have just tried it and it seem ok, but your going to have about 323 original 3d objects records missing. so be warn you are going to get a lot of CTD. You can get around this by re-naming the original object record name to the same name has the NWP 3d objects name, i.e. take the object record name of the AIM-120 AMRAAM for example, and change its name to AIM-120A AMRAAM and this will stop the CTD for that model.

Then all you need to do is make two copy of the AIM-120A AMRAAM object and 3d object records and then re-name them to whats below,

AIM-120C AMRAAM
AIM-120D AMRAAM

or to whatever you would like to use yourself.

There are also going to be other problems too, I will give you a tip Mission Records. Something else you could use is the export feature of the editor but this can go wrong big time so be careful and backup before you use it. i don't have the time to go through how to use the export and import features.

You will still need to make a lot of new object records though, if you copy the objects.odb file from NWP you might has well just use the NWP mod itself.

I hope this info help. :cool:

[Captain Obvious]

Hi folks,

So I've changed slightly what I'm doing. Initially I thought I'd just get the 3D models, but then thought 'hang on, what about the placement of weapons? I won't have a clue that the coordinates are!' So then I decided to just add all of the database files from NWP, but I'm then going to edit and whittle them down. So instead of having air superiority and strikes versions of the same aircraft, it will be just the one with different loadouts. I figure this is the best way to do things, and essentially lets me keep the original gameplay mechanics whilst customising to my hearst content.

Thanks for the help :-)

EDIT: just out of curiosity, are there going to be any updates to the NWP that remove the AAW/Strike etc restrictions? Why were they put in in the first place?

[Captain Obvious]

Any chance at all?

[Fleet Command CC]

Any chance at all?

Hello Captain Obvious.

Any chance of what?

[Captain Obvious]

Sorry, the dangers of adding an edit instead of a new post :-)

Just wondering if there would be any updates to the NWP that remove the AAW/Strike etc restrictions for aircraft? Why were they put in in the first place?

[Fleet Command CC]

Right cool I'm with you now.

I would think this is probably unlikely, to much work to change it back, this was done before I started messing around with the DB editor.

I think the NWP Team, wanted to have aircraft that had mission specific load-out, and not only that the game is limit to four mission load-out types. AAW\ASUW\STRIKE\SUW. There are alot of different mission load-out now in the real world, so the easiest way around this was to make mission specific aircraft which that is whats in the NWP mod.

I hope this answer your question, not too sure if it does I'm half asleep.

[FoxAlfa]

I think the NWP Team, wanted to have aircraft that had mission specific load-out, and not only that the game is limit to four mission load-out types. AAW\ASUW\STRIKE\SUW. There are alot of different mission load-out now in the real world, so the easiest way around this was to make mission specific aircraft which that is whats in the NWP mod.

Also there is a problem of not being able to control the load exactly. The computer chooses what to load so often you easily get an unrealistic load-out... I tried to make a yak-38 a load ether 4* R-60 or 2* R-60 and Kh-25ML it was a nightmare and in the end wasn't able to do it :(

[Saffron]

Actually, the stated reason why NWS decided to move to mission-specific aircraft was because they didn't like how the game didn't model logistics. You can load up the entire air wing of a carrier with RGM-84C missiles on SUW mission, launch all the missiles, then come back and load them all up again without any thought for how many Harpoon missiles a carrier would actually have on board. Since they couldn't add logistics to the game (I really wish they could have), they decided to have aircraft with fixed loadouts to reduce unrealistic numbers of expensive weapons from being used. In a sense, if you run out of SUW aircraft, you ran out of the ordinance that aircraft carried. It was definitely a stop-gap solution, but without the source code, that was the best they could do.

[Fleet Command CC]

Also there is a problem of not being able to control the load exactly. The computer chooses what to load so often you easily get an unrealistic load-out... I tried to make a yak-38 a load ether 4* R-60 or 2* R-60 and Kh-25ML it was a nightmare and in the end wasn't able to do it :(

Hey Fox.

I did this a long time ago and I got it to work, but I did it on the stock data base of FC and on the FA-2 Sea Harrier Gn, it was a nightmare to do, but it can be done just takes a lot time and patients. :)

[Fleet Command CC]

Actually, the stated reason why NWS decided to move to mission-specific aircraft was because they didn't like how the game didn't model logistics. You can load up the entire air wing of a carrier with RGM-84C missiles on SUW mission, launch all the missiles, then come back and load them all up again without any thought for how many Harpoon missiles a carrier would actually have on board. Since they couldn't add logistics to the game (I really wish they could have), they decided to have aircraft with fixed loadouts to reduce unrealistic numbers of expensive weapons from being used. In a sense, if you run out of SUW aircraft, you ran out of the ordinance that aircraft carried. It was definitely a stop-gap solution, but without the source code, that was the best they could do.

Hello Saffron.

I thought there was a more in depth reason why it was done thanks for pointing that out for me, couldn't remember for sure myself.

Well in went you say (You can load up the entire air wing of a carrier with a specific missiles) you also have got the choice not to, which is already in the stock game.

If you start a mission with a carrier lets say the Invincible CVS5, and you set your mission load-outs for each aircraft.

Let say you go for something like this below,

15 FA-2 Sea Harrier

Set 5 as AAW
Set 5 as ASUW
Set 5 as STRIKE

4 HAS-5/6 Sea King

Set 2 ASW
Set 2 ASUW

3 AEW-2/7 Sea King

and if you lost all your AAW :eek::eek: (OH NO!!!) :eek::eek: you just need a bit of will power not to change the ASUW or STRIKE Harriers to AAW. This give you the same solution that is in the NWP mod. ;)

SCS made the game so it would make chaps like me and chaps like yourself happy the best of both worlds (you have the choice in the game) if you look at it how I've just explained it. :cool:

Its the same rule has do I cheat or do I not cheat, but this is my simple way of thinking.

[Captain Obvious]

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. The solution makes sense from the logistics point of view, and it is indeed a problem with the game. I think I'll still edit the NWP to return to the single platform approach, just have to make sure I do it properly. :-)

[Fleet Command CC]

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. The solution makes sense from the logistics point of view, and it is indeed a problem with the game. I think I'll still edit the NWP to return to the single platform approach, just have to make sure I do it properly. :-)

Hey Captain Obvious.

No probs we try are best to help here, I would wait for the next release before do to much. ;)