Newbie Questions

[Akmatov]

Well, I have been playing WCDB FAR too much the last two days. And I have some questions. Specifically, playing Matapan to completion a couple of times has left me a bit confused. I have been astonished at how well the Italians have been shooting. I know the Italian navy was quite decent to quite good, but their shooting is phenomenal. At the end of both games, one an Italian Victory and one a British Victory(torpedoes are quite useful), few of the Italian ships were damaged and almost all the British ships were pretty shot up. I'm sure the only way I could have won the second battle was that I managed to get some torpedoes into the Italian BB. I even had two magazine explosions in one turn, on the Brits, of course. I checked the values in the Ship Data Tables and saw nothing to support what I was seeing. As a result of Matapan, I have a couple of questions in my search to understand what is happening, and the WCDB system:

1) Is there a penalty for targeting too many ships on one target? Historically, I know this was a problem as it was hard to know which splashes were whose before radar fire control. However, I should mention that when a bunch of Brits are firing on the same target I'm getting a bunch of misses and when a bunch of Italians are firing on the same target I'm getting @30% hits. So there still seems a huge nationality variation.

2) Are ships supposed to self disengage? Had a division of three BBs at range band 2 and was going to use them to cover the withdrawal of my lighter ships when one just popped smoke, disengaged and left. Without any command from me. Huh?

3) Is it possible to penetrate behind the enemies outlying division's range band? I had two Italian destroyers seemingly block a division of eight British destroyers from closing range with the Italian main body. I would order the Brits to close fast and the system would change it to maintain range each time.

4) Unrelated to Matapan, but general. Is it possible to change sides once you select a scenario and a side? Since you don't know which nationality Side 1 or 2 represents until the scenario starts, you have to close down in order to go back and reload the scenario to chose the other side which you NOW know is the side representing the nationality you wanted to play.

Thanks,

William

[Ed Rotondaro]

Well, I have been playing WCDB FAR too much the last two days. And I have some questions. Specifically, playing Matapan to completion a couple of times has left me a bit confused. I have been astonished at how well the Italians have been shooting. I know the Italian navy was quite decent to quite good, but their shooting is phenomenal. At the end of both games, one an Italian Victory and one a British Victory(torpedoes are quite useful), few of the Italian ships were damaged and almost all the British ships were pretty shot up. I'm sure the only way I could have won the second battle was that I managed to get some torpedoes into the Italian BB. I even had two magazine explosions in one turn, on the Brits, of course. I checked the values in the Ship Data Tables and saw nothing to support what I was seeing. As a result of Matapan, I have a couple of questions in my search to understand what is happening, and the WCDB system:

1) Is there a penalty for targeting too many ships on one target? Historically, I know this was a problem as it was hard to know which splashes were whose before radar fire control. However, I should mention that when a bunch of Brits are firing on the same target I'm getting a bunch of misses and when a bunch of Italians are firing on the same target I'm getting @30% hits. So there still seems a huge nationality variation.

2) Are ships supposed to self disengage? Had a division of three BBs at range band 2 and was going to use them to cover the withdrawal of my lighter ships when one just popped smoke, disengaged and left. Without any command from me. Huh?

3) Is it possible to penetrate behind the enemies outlying division's range band? I had two Italian destroyers seemingly block a division of eight British destroyers from closing range with the Italian main body. I would order the Brits to close fast and the system would change it to maintain range each time.

4) Unrelated to Matapan, but general. Is it possible to change sides once you select a scenario and a side? Since you don't know which nationality Side 1 or 2 represents until the scenario starts, you have to close down in order to go back and reload the scenario to chose the other side which you NOW know is the side representing the nationality you wanted to play.

Thanks,

William

William:

Ships will disengage by themselves under certain conditions. If the steering is reduced to zero, a ship will disengage. If it loses all its main batteries and has no torpedoes it will disengage. Side 1 is always the player side. If you are curious about the compositions of the sides, I recommend that you review the scenarios prior to play so as to know what you will be playing. The new mapping feature for WCDB V2 wll probably address flanking maneuvers more accurately (Chris can give you more insight here). The more ships firing on a target, the more they will mask/confuse their own fire control unless the target is dead in the water and the range is very close. Hope this helps.

[Warship NWS]

1) Is there a penalty for targeting too many ships on one target? Historically, I know this was a problem as it was hard to know which splashes were whose before radar fire control. However, I should mention that when a bunch of Brits are firing on the same target I'm getting a bunch of misses and when a bunch of Italians are firing on the same target I'm getting @30% hits. So there still seems a huge nationality variation.

There is a penalty for "over concentration" of fire. As to what you were seeing.. a lot of various variables could be involved in terms of which ships hit their targets and how often. Check the gunnery modifier listing for all of the different possible calculations.


2) Are ships supposed to self disengage? Had a division of three BBs at range band 2 and was going to use them to cover the withdrawal of my lighter ships when one just popped smoke, disengaged and left. Without any command from me. Huh?

Under certain circumstances, yes ships may auto-disengage.


3) Is it possible to penetrate behind the enemies outlying division's range band? I had two Italian destroyers seemingly block a division of eight British destroyers from closing range with the Italian main body. I would order the Brits to close fast and the system would change it to maintain range each time.

Not if there is a viable enemy division blocking such a move. Commanders did not want enemy divisions to their rear, thus ending up in a crossfire.


4) Unrelated to Matapan, but general. Is it possible to change sides once you select a scenario and a side? Since you don't know which nationality Side 1 or 2 represents until the scenario starts, you have to close down in order to go back and reload the scenario to chose the other side which you NOW know is the side representing the nationality you wanted to play.

Most scenarios should have some type of description giving you an idea of what ships are involved, other then that, you would have to restart the battle. I may add a feature at some point where a list of ships will be shown prior to battle IF FOW is turned off.

Thanks.

[Akmatov]

Thanks for the fast replies!


Ships will disengage by themselves under certain conditions. If the steering is reduced to zero, a ship will disengage. If it loses all its main batteries and has no torpedoes it will disengage.
As this was a barely scratched BB in company with two other prime BBs, fleeing the onslaught of some cruisers; I guess it is time to shoot a captain.


Side 1 is always the player side. If you are curious about the compositions of the sides, I recommend that you review the scenarios prior to play so as to know what you will be playing.

Most scenarios should have some type of description giving you an idea of what ships are involved, other then that, you would have to restart the battle. I may add a feature at some point where a list of ships will be shown prior to battle IF FOW is turned off.
I may not have been completely clear. I know Matapan will be Italians vs Brits and Denmark Cape will be Germans vs Brits. But when I get to the point of choosing sides I have a choice of Side 1 or Side 2 and no way, I know of, to know which nationality is which until the scenario loads. My thought was to have a command that lets me flip to take command of the other side when I realize which side I'm now commanding. I might not want to command the Bismarck, but rather the Brits in the Denmark Straits scenario, but which side is which is a mystery until the scenario is loaded.


Not if there is a viable enemy division blocking such a move.
I guess the word 'viable' is the critical one. I would have thought a division of eight healthy destroyers would be able to get past two shot up destroyers to get at the goodies.


There is a penalty for "over concentration" of fire.
Ah ha! That is helpful, and historical. Now if I can just convince the Italian Navy of that.
:)


As to what you were seeing.. a lot of various variables could be involved in terms of which ships hit their targets and how often. Check the gunnery modifier listing for all of the different possible calculations.
Guess I need to go become more familiar with the AAR Log because in two full games the Italians with inferior crews and inferior FC gear have badly shot up the Brits with better crews and FC. Of course, the entrails might just have been especially favorable.

Once again, thanks for the info. And I realize I have only played a few scenarios and the winds of luck can have a huge effect in both games and real life.

[Warship NWS]

As this was a barely scratched BB in company with two other prime BBs, fleeing the onslaught of some cruisers; I guess it is time to shoot a captain.

Was the BB out of main battery ammunition? BB captains historically did not like the idea of sailing home unarmed.


I may not have been completely clear. I know Matapan will be Italians vs Brits and Denmark Cape will be Germans vs Brits. But when I get to the point of choosing sides I have a choice of Side 1 or Side 2 and no way, I know of, to know which nationality is which until the scenario loads. My thought was to have a command that lets me flip to take command of the other side when I realize which side I'm now commanding. I might not want to command the Bismarck, but rather the Brits in the Denmark Straits scenario, but which side is which is a mystery until the scenario is loaded.

Again, the scenario description should give some indicator which side is which before you start the battle.. that is up to the scenario designer to make sure that is noted. Another way is to open up the scenario in TXT editor to view the details.


I guess the word 'viable' is the critical one. I would have thought a division of eight healthy destroyers would be able to get past two shot up destroyers to get at the goodies.

If a ship could still shoot it was still considered a threat, however, in WCDB v2.0 you will be able to flank enemy divisions.


Guess I need to go become more familiar with the AAR Log because in two full games the Italians with inferior crews and inferior FC gear have badly shot up the Brits with better crews and FC. Of course, the entrails might just have been especially favorable.

Once again, thanks for the info. And I realize I have only played a few scenarios and the winds of luck can have a huge effect in both games and real life.

Absolutely. One lucky hit can, and did, change the course of various naval engagements. Just remember.. there are a lot of modifiers covering gunfire in WCDB so you need to keep in mind that it is not just the crews or FCs that matter when determining the chances to hit an enemy ship.

Thanks.

[Akmatov]

Was the BB out of main battery ammunition? BB captains historically did not like the idea of sailing home unarmed.YES, just checked the AAR! Now it makes sense.


the scenario description should give some indicator which side is which before you start the battle.I've downloaded a bunch from your website and so far it has always been a mystery. I can fix it by adjusting the file name, no problem.


WCDB v2.0 you will be able to flank enemy divisions.Looking forward to that, soon isn't it?


Just remember.. there are a lot of modifiers covering gunfire in WCDB so you need to keep in mind that it is not just the crews or FCs that matter when determining the chances to hit an enemy ship.I like that!

Obviously, having a lot of fun with WCDB.

[Warship NWS]

Go here for WCDB v2.0 news;

http://forums.navalwarfare.net/showthread.php?t=143

Thanks.