Total War Games

[old_pop2000]

I don't know if any of you are familiar with these games, but I have the Rome, Shogun and just purchased Medieval II:Total War and the expansion pack of Kingdoms. These are strategy games with the ability to resolve battles in a battlefield situation.

I have had nothing but fun, playing these games. I recently purchased the Medieval II as the original did not work due to OP system changes. No problem, because the other is just fascinating.

I am not entirely certain as to the real accuracy of the play, but it does give you a sense of the difficulty of managing a faction such as the Spanish, Venetians, French or the English. You have to balance warfighting, economics and politics. But money is the underlying basis for all success. [That's true even today]

Some interesting things that I found out are:

When the Pope calls for a Crusade.....DON'T Go. You have to pay for the troops upkeep, you lose some of your best ones and one leader. I do much better when I tell the Pope " You want Aleppo or Antioch, go get them yourself".

Sometimes the AI Pope will give you a mission to blockade a fellow Catholic then he turns around and says he will excommunicate you if you continue the fight, while the opponent continues to attack your fleet and ships. Probably not a bad idea to examine these Papal requests carefully.

One facet of game play is the ability to convert a castle to a town and vice versa. Castles don't contribute to the economic well being of the faction, but on the frontier, probably are necessary. A castle on a frontier with an unfriendly faction, is a good idea along with forts, and watchtowers. It's best to eliminate the fog of war in your faction.

I just love spy's and especially assassins. Once I have some, I go after all kind of people I don't like. I played the Spanish last night, and used my assassin to kill the two Moorish leaders in Cordoba, then attacked it on the next turn. Worked to perfection.

Anyway, I won't bore you any more, but I have having fun with this. It is great relaxation and I love to destroy things. I also have no mercy on captured armies, I exterminate them every time.

[Saffron]

I have Medieval Total War II and Kingdoms, as well.

I haven't been able to play it in awhile because of some weird graphics issues. I think my Geforce 8600 is about to crap out on me.

I agree about the Crusades, though. I played the Brits on my first campaign, and the Pope always picked a Crusade on the other side of the map. I tried to go on Crusade twice and the first time, I kept forgetting to move my Crusade army (I wish MTW II had the same functionality as Civ IV when it comes to moving units ... the camera auto-focused on any unit you haven't moved and you could move or pass the turn). Therefore, I kept losing men to desertion so I gave up. The second time, I got halfway there and the Crusade was over. I realized that you'll never have time to get an army all the way from Britain to the Middle East before it's all over, so I started ignoring Crusades.

I also had a problem with one of the factions that kept declaring war, then the moment I laid siege to one of their castles/cities, they'd sue for peace, and the Pope would demand that I accept peace. After about the 10th time, I ignored the Pope and went on a rampage.

I've also had the same problem with the blockade missions. What's worse is that the Pope would demand I blockade a faction I had good relations with, and a blockade is an instant declaration of war. No thanks. I don't want a war on multiple fronts. Don't be the Pope in a game I play ... you'll never get what you want.

Plus, there's nothing more satisfying than blasting away at castle walls where the AI has lots of men stationed. They go a-flyin' when that wall gets hit.

My only real complaint is how, sometimes when you bust a hole in the AI's wall, the AI will send a unit of meleers to guard it, but won't actually come through it to the outside. Because of this, I was able to get some cheesy victories by walking a unit of archers right up to the hole and firing into their melee ranks at point blank without fear of them charging me. They just stood there and took the arrows until the last man was killed. With an unguarded breach, I walked right into their city/castle almost unopposed.

I like assassins, too, but I always seem to get inept ones. I can't begin to count the number of times the snake decided to slither out the door instead of biting the target ... or my assassin hiding on the wrong side of the door and getting hit with it ... or getting chased into a dead-end alley, etc.

[old_pop2000]

I played the Germans ( Alias the Holy Roman Empire) and again the Pope stuck it to me. I attacked Metz, a rebel outpost, then the Milanese attacked me. Then he tells me not to continue operations against the Danes.

I think, tonight, I am going to continue the game and with my troops in Bologna, attack and destroy the Papal States. Why not!! Maybe I'll send in my assassins first, cut his throat and move in. That ought to get something started. I might get help from the Moors if I do it during the Crusades. Great Idea!!!

[old_pop2000]

Well, the Papal States attacked my city of Bologna, so, I killed the Pope and his leading general with an assassin. It worked great. The new Pope was sympathetic and ask for peace. I also exterminated his army. No more mister nice guy. Assassins and extermination seems to be the name of the game.

Boy, is this great!!

[Saffron]

Sheesh, how are you getting such good assassins?

[old_pop2000]

Sheesh, how are you getting such good assassins?
I make them offers, they can't refuse.:D

[tony_glazebrook]

I don't know if any of you are familiar with these games, but I have the Rome, Shogun and just purchased Medieval II:Total War and the expansion pack of Kingdoms. These are strategy games with the ability to resolve battles in a battlefield situation.

I have had nothing but fun, playing these games. I recently purchased the Medieval II as the original did not work due to OP system changes. No problem, because the other is just fascinating.

I am not entirely certain as to the real accuracy of the play, but it does give you a sense of the difficulty of managing a faction such as the Spanish, Venetians, French or the English. You have to balance warfighting, economics and politics. But money is the underlying basis for all success. [That's true even today]

Some interesting things that I found out are:

When the Pope calls for a Crusade.....DON'T Go. You have to pay for the troops upkeep, you lose some of your best ones and one leader. I do much better when I tell the Pope " You want Aleppo or Antioch, go get them yourself".

Sometimes the AI Pope will give you a mission to blockade a fellow Catholic then he turns around and says he will excommunicate you if you continue the fight, while the opponent continues to attack your fleet and ships. Probably not a bad idea to examine these Papal requests carefully.

One facet of game play is the ability to convert a castle to a town and vice versa. Castles don't contribute to the economic well being of the faction, but on the frontier, probably are necessary. A castle on a frontier with an unfriendly faction, is a good idea along with forts, and watchtowers. It's best to eliminate the fog of war in your faction.

I just love spy's and especially assassins. Once I have some, I go after all kind of people I don't like. I played the Spanish last night, and used my assassin to kill the two Moorish leaders in Cordoba, then attacked it on the next turn. Worked to perfection.

Anyway, I won't bore you any more, but I have having fun with this. It is great relaxation and I love to destroy things. I also have no mercy on captured armies, I exterminate them every time.


Dennis - I have been playing Shogun and Medieval Total War for quite a while and they are among my favourite games too - the blend of strategy and tactical battles is very well done I think. I used to play tabletop games with the WRG set of rules for wargaming in the 'ancients' era and the tactical batles you can play in the Total War series are a lot of fun.

I think the strategy AI is a bit hokey though, and I get bored with all the non military stuff like assassins, who seem to be killed off at an alarming rate even when you manage to get them to a three or four star level of skill.

My favourite countries to play in Medievall War are the Egyptians or the Almohads - easy choices and you can work your way up through Europe more or less as you please.

One strategy I always follow is build a castle as soon as possible and then a church (or mosque) everywhere I have a province as this greatly increases population loyalty and you don't have to tie down so many soldiers in your rear just keeping the peace.

I also have the latest game in the series - Rome - but for some reason I do not like it so much. The isometric map for one thing is an annoyance.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Well, the Papal States attacked my city of Bologna, so, I killed the Pope and his leading general with an assassin. It worked great. The new Pope was sympathetic and ask for peace. I also exterminated his army. No more mister nice guy. Assassins and extermination seems to be the name of the game.

Boy, is this great!!

Dennis:

Does the game offer the option for an Anti-Pope? There was a time when there was an Italian Pope, a French Pope and an English Pope during the Hundred Years War. Don't like the current Pope? Refuse to recognize him and elect your own. And they wonder why the Reformation occurred?

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

Does the game offer the option for an Anti-Pope? There was a time when there was an Italian Pope, a French Pope and an English Pope during the Hundred Years War. Don't like the current Pope? Refuse to recognize him and elect your own. And they wonder why the Reformation occurred?
I don't know, I will research. But killing the current little Pain in the Butt, seems to work real well. It is interesting, that except for Caen and Rennes, England is relatively safe from invasion, even from the Scots, who are somewhat benign.

I'll have to try the Egyptians.

[Ed Rotondaro]

I don't know, I will research. But killing the current little Pain in the Butt, seems to work real well. It is interesting, that except for Caen and Rennes, England is relatively safe from invasion, even from the Scots, who are somewhat benign.

I'll have to try the Egyptians.

Dennis:

How long does an average game take? Also is the game easy to learn? Thanks.

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

How long does an average game take? Also is the game easy to learn? Thanks.
The campaign part is not difficult to understand, the tutorial is good. I need to read the manual( hate that) and see if I am missing something. I don't conduct the battles, I just let them resolve so I can concentrate on the economic, political and mliitary factors. I play the game on medium difficulty, until I really get good handle on it. I believe, personally that it would be a good multiplayer game for kids in school to learn about the Medieval time period.

Time wise, I have the time to play three or four hours, but if you don't , just play for period of time, then save the game and continue later.

[tony_glazebrook]

I don't know, I will research. But killing the current little Pain in the Butt, seems to work real well. It is interesting, that except for Caen and Rennes, England is relatively safe from invasion, even from the Scots, who are somewhat benign.

I'll have to try the Egyptians.

Dennis - I hesitate to suggest a plan as I'm sure you have your own ideas, but but I'd like to pass on a tip having played the Egyptians a number of times in the "Early Campaign" scenario: I have found it a good strategy to declare war asap on the Turks and the consolidate your enormorusly rich areas of Antioch, Tripoli, Palestine and Egypt while maintaining a peace with the Almohads. They seem happy enough generally to concentrate on Spain, leaving you a free hand with the Turks who are aggressive and need to be taken out anyway. Then consolidate the gains, become the dominant maritime power (along with the Byzantines) in the eastern med and await the arrival of the Mongols around 1200, who will rip through Russia and then eastern Europe if possible and keep the Byzantines weakened. Don't go any further than Georgia until the Mongol threat has passed - you can barricade Georgia to stop the Mongols coming down to attack your territories. The mongols have mainly heavy cavalry and can be stopped relatively easily with lots of cheap spear armed infantry; using your Egyptian camels against the mongol horses is also effective as the horses don't like camels. Then go against the Byzantines soon after, and after gaining Constantinople, turn your attention to the west and knock over the Almohads and move up though Spain and try to get a complete chain of navies in the med so you can ferry troops around very quickly. Then you have a pincer attack on Europe - east from Constantinople, and west from Spain. With Constantinople and the eastern mediterranean cities in your empire you will easily be the wealthiest player and can afford to employ mercenaries to supplement or even replace native raised troops when necessary. I've done this several times succesfully on "normal" difficulty level, and have ended up controlling all provinces on the board.

Good luck to the the new dynasty of Old Pop the Ist! Whatever strategy you employ, I wish you all the best!

[tony_glazebrook]

Dennis:

How long does an average game take? Also is the game easy to learn? Thanks.

Ed - Medieval War is well worth the relatively small time it takes to learn the mechanics. You can simplfy things by having taxation and so forth all automatically controlled, so you can concentrate on what you want.

Like Dennis I am a devotee of this series, and believe it would be a wonderful way for kids to learn some history and geography. I find this game much more satisfying than many of the grand strategy games, even Civilisation.

It does have some dubious AI though, which does some annoying things. Eg, in a game I'm playing now, as the Almohad dynasty, the Egyptians have suddenly atacked even though the odds are something like 3:1 in my favour. I think the game engine does stuff like this to stop you getting too comfortable, but it is not rational decision making and is a weakness. That aside, the game is a cracker.

Cheers Ed

[old_pop2000]

Dennis - I hesitate to suggest a plan as I'm sure you have your own ideas, but but I'd like to pass on a tip having played the Egyptians a number of times in the "Early Campaign" scenario: I have found it a good strategy to declare war asap on the Turks and the consolidate your enormorusly rich areas of Antioch, Tripoli, Palestine and Egypt while maintaining a peace with the Almohads. They seem happy enough generally to concentrate on Spain, leaving you a free hand with the Turks who are aggressive and need to be taken out anyway. Then consolidate the gains, become the dominant maritime power (along with the Byzantines) in the eastern med and await the arrival of the Mongols around 1200, who will rip through Russia and then eastern Europe if possible and keep the Byzantines weakened. Don't go any further than Georgia until the Mongol threat has passed - you can barricade Georgia to stop the Mongols coming down to attack your territories. The mongols have mainly heavy cavalry and can be stopped relatively easily with lots of cheap spear armed infantry; using your Egyptian camels against the mongol horses is also effective as the horses don't like camels. Then go against the Byzantines soon after, and after gaining Constantinople, turn your attention to the west and knock over the Almohads and move up though Spain and try to get a complete chain of navies in the med so you can ferry troops around very quickly. Then you have a pincer attack on Europe - east from Constantinople, and west from Spain. With Constantinople and the eastern mediterranean cities in your empire you will easily be the wealthiest player and can afford to employ mercenaries to supplement or even replace native raised troops when necessary. I've done this several times succesfully on "normal" difficulty level, and have ended up controlling all provinces on the board.

Good luck to the the new dynasty of Old Pop the Ist! Whatever strategy you employ, I wish you all the best!
I believe in the old adage as offered by Bismarck, "Those who fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it". Thank you for those great pearls of strategy, at my age, I need all the help I can get. I have noticed though, that the Moors are easy to eject from Spain, so I don't know how long they will be kept busy.

Long Live Old Pop The First!!!

Note: I really need a good name like the Impaler, or Blood axe. Something really nasty.

[tony_glazebrook]

I believe in the old adage as offered by Bismarck, "Those who fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it". Thank you for those great pearls of strategy, at my age, I need all the help I can get. I have noticed though, that the Moors are easy to eject from Spain, so I don't know how long they will be kept busy.

Long Live Old Pop The First!!!

Note: I really need a good name like the Impaler, or Blood axe. Something really nasty.

Dennis - what about "Head Crusher I'? The Head Crusher was a particularly nasty peice of medieval torture and needs no translation. Let all enemies of "Head Crusher I" quail before him!

Or Hannibal III. First we have Hannibal, son of Hamilcar and the famous general, credited with the use of biological weapons in his last naval engagement; second was Hannibal Lecter; now, most horrible of all is Hannibal III...

[Ed Rotondaro]

The campaign part is not difficult to understand, the tutorial is good. I need to read the manual( hate that) and see if I am missing something. I don't conduct the battles, I just let them resolve so I can concentrate on the economic, political and mliitary factors. I play the game on medium difficulty, until I really get good handle on it. I believe, personally that it would be a good multiplayer game for kids in school to learn about the Medieval time period.

Time wise, I have the time to play three or four hours, but if you don't , just play for period of time, then save the game and continue later.

Dennis:

Thanks, it sounds worth a look.

[Ed Rotondaro]

I believe in the old adage as offered by Bismarck, "Those who fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it". Thank you for those great pearls of strategy, at my age, I need all the help I can get. I have noticed though, that the Moors are easy to eject from Spain, so I don't know how long they will be kept busy.

Long Live Old Pop The First!!!

Note: I really need a good name like the Impaler, or Blood axe. Something really nasty.

I vote for Dennis the Dreaded LOL!

[old_pop2000]

I vote for Dennis the Dreaded LOL!
I like that, Dennis The dreaded. I thought about Dennis The Pope Killer.

[Saffron]

Or Dennis "Old Pope Popper" Pop.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Ed - Medieval War is well worth the relatively small time it takes to learn the mechanics. You can simplfy things by having taxation and so forth all automatically controlled, so you can concentrate on what you want.

Like Dennis I am a devotee of this series, and believe it would be a wonderful way for kids to learn some history and geography. I find this game much more satisfying than many of the grand strategy games, even Civilisation.

It does have some dubious AI though, which does some annoying things. Eg, in a game I'm playing now, as the Almohad dynasty, the Egyptians have suddenly atacked even though the odds are something like 3:1 in my favour. I think the game engine does stuff like this to stop you getting too comfortable, but it is not rational decision making and is a weakness. That aside, the game is a cracker.

Cheers Ed

Tony:

Back when I was in college (or up at university as you folks would say) I got a Batchelors degree in European History with a concentration on Medieval/Renaissance studies. My professors wanted me to go on to grad school for history, but I lacked any Latin which was vital for studying that period. So I went on to grad school for Public Administration and became a government worker. Now days, there are many ways to get translation services so you don't have to be an expert in a dead language. It's funny, one of my best friends was Classics major with a minor in history. He could read Latin and Greek and went on to get his PhD. from Yale in Economic History. He is an acknowledged expert in the demographics of aging populations.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Or Dennis "Old Pope Popper" Pop.

Saffron:

One of these days that tactic will backfire on him;)

[tony_glazebrook]

Tony:

Back when I was in college (or up at university as you folks would say) I got a Batchelors degree in European History with a concentration on Medieval/Renaissance studies. My professors wanted me to go on to grad school for history, but I lacked any Latin which was vital for studying that period. So I went on to grad school for Public Administration and became a government worker. Now days, there are many ways to get translation services so you don't have to be an expert in a dead language. It's funny, one of my best friends was Classics major with a minor in history. He could read Latin and Greek and went on to get his PhD. from Yale in Economic History. He is an acknowledged expert in the demographics of aging populations.

Ed - I kew it, you're a history junkie too! I am not sure how your tertiary systems compare to ours, but after leaving "high" school (at age of 17), where I had previously studied for the last two years "modern" history (mainly European, French Revolution and beyond) as well ancient history. I had wonderful history teachers in both cases. Then at University, I continued with a Arts-Law degree, specialising in history (mainly now asian - chinese and japanese history and language). In my young teen years, I remember reading a book on the Crusades that got me totally involved. Of course, it was a whitewash, with the knights Templar coming out smelling of roses and those 'nasty' Saracens less so. But I have always been fascinated by history, which is one reason why Medieval Europe appeals so much.

I despair of the modern generation, and of what passes for modern political analysis, which is obsessed with economic conditions. Perhaps I am too much of a romantic at heart, I always preferred the anarchists of Peter Kropotkin over the bolsheviks. But I also think that economic rationalism misses so much. Kings and nations have gone to war for many reasons, of which pure economic interest has been but one, and probably the minor factor. I still see the western response to terrorism in that light and can not accept the calculus that revisionists push, along the lines that the war in Iraq was about the oil, or the hoped-for economic bonanza from re-building, or whatever.

Cheers my friend.

PS - you really should get a copy of Medieval War....

[Ed Rotondaro]

Ed - I kew it, you're a history junkie too! I am not sure how your tertiary systems compare to ours, but after leaving "high" school (at age of 17), where I had previously studied for the last two years "modern" history (mainly European, French Revolution and beyond) as well ancient history. I had wonderful history teachers in both cases. Then at University, I continued with a Arts-Law degree, specialising in history (mainly now asian - chinese and japanese history and language). In my young teen years, I remember reading a book on the Crusades that got me totally involved. Of course, it was a whitewash, with the knights Templar coming out smelling of roses and those 'nasty' Saracens less so. But I have always been fascinated by history, which is one reason why Medieval Europe appeals so much.

I despair of the modern generation, and of what passes for modern political analysis, which is obsessed with economic conditions. Perhaps I am too much of a romantic at heart, I always preferred the anarchists of Peter Kropotkin over the bolsheviks. But I also think that economic rationalism misses so much. Kings and nations have gone to war for many reasons, of which pure economic interest has been but one, and probably the minor factor. I still see the western response to terrorism in that light and can not accept the calculus that revisionists push, along the lines that the war in Iraq was about the oil, or the hoped-for economic bonanza from re-building, or whatever.

Cheers my friend.

PS - you really should get a copy of Medieval War....

Tony:

So do you speak Japanese? That would be useful thing in this world. Regarding Kropotkin, while at university I took a course on Russian history. One of the books we read was Kropotkin's autobiography of an anarchist. Interesting person and probably better than the Communists.

Do I need the Kingdoms expansion for Medieval War? I'm planning on getting it via NWS.

Stay well sir!

[Ed Rotondaro]

I like that, Dennis The dreaded. I thought about Dennis The Pope Killer.

Dennis:

I asked Toony this, but you'll probably reply first. Do I need the kingdoms expansion to play Medieval War II? Also what sort of RAM are you using? I have 512MB and that seems to be the minimum. I am also worried that my video card might not be powerful enough. What are you using? Thanks.

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

I asked Toony this, but you'll probably reply first. Do I need the kingdoms expansion to play Medieval War II? Also what sort of RAM are you using? I have 512MB and that seems to be the minimum. I am also worried that my video card might not be powerful enough. What are you using? Thanks.
First answer is no, you do not need the expansion. However, to get to Egypt, you have to win with one of the initial factions. There is a method of editing a file in the Imperial_campaign directory which will unlock all the other factions.

Second, minimum requirements are 512 mb ram, directX 9.0, and 128mb of video ram that is compatible with directX 9,.0. Monitor must be able to display 1024 x 728.

If you need more, give me your specs and I will tell you if it will work. Remember this is the minimum. It will run, but might be slow, hard to tell.

My system has 2gb RAM, with an NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE. My video ram size is 256mb. My system is a 2.8g system with 100 MB RAID 1 drives, running at 10K RPM. I am using an SB X-FI sound card. I also have a 120 mb portable drive with a Samsung 21 inch flat screen. System also contains a TV card for watching and recording TV programs. Op system is XP Media Center

[Ed Rotondaro]

First answer is no, you do not need the expansion. However, to get to Egypt, you have to win with one of the initial factions. There is a method of editing a file in the Imperial_campaign directory which will unlock all the other factions.

Second, minimum requirements are 512 mb ram, directX 9.0, and 128mb of video ram that is compatible with directX 9,.0. Monitor must be able to display 1024 x 728.

If you need more, give me your specs and I will tell you if it will work. Remember this is the minimum. It will run, but might be slow, hard to tell.

My system has 2gb RAM, with an NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE. My video ram size is 256mb. My system is a 2.8g system with 100 MB RAID 1 drives, running at 10K RPM. I am using an SB X-FI sound card. I also have a 120 mb portable drive with a Samsung 21 inch flat screen. System also contains a TV card for watching and recording TV programs. Op system is XP Media Center

Dennis:

Thanks for the info. I'm at work right now so I don't have access to my PC's stats. I'm probably going to have to upgrade my RAM and my video card first. I believe that the Gold edition of game which includes the Kingdoms expansion also comes with Direct X 9.0. I am hankering to try this game out! See what you did:D

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

Thanks for the info. I'm at work right now so I don't have access to my PC's stats. I'm probably going to have to upgrade my RAM and my video card first. I believe that the Gold edition of game which includes the Kingdoms expansion also comes with Direct X 9.0. I am hankering to try this game out! See what you did:D
It's kind of addicting. I played from 1800 hrs to 2100 hrs the other night, without even blinking. Tony appears to be the expert, so let's keep pinging on him for good info.

[Ed Rotondaro]

It's kind of addicting. I played from 1800 hrs to 2100 hrs the other night, without even blinking. Tony appears to be the expert, so let's keep pinging on him for good info.

Dennis:

That sounds good to me. I have already decided to add an additional 512MB of RAM to my PC. I may even be able to get it locally rather than thru Dell. Now I'm pricing video card upgrades!

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

That sounds good to me. I have already decided to add an additional 512MB of RAM to my PC. I may even be able to get it locally rather than thru Dell. Now I'm pricing video card upgrades!
I have always found that it is better to remove the old memory and get more that is in the same batch. If you buy a 1 meg memory module, it will operate faster than two 512 meg modules of different batches.

[tony_glazebrook]

First answer is no, you do not need the expansion. However, to get to Egypt, you have to win with one of the initial factions. There is a method of editing a file in the Imperial_campaign directory which will unlock all the other factions.

Second, minimum requirements are 512 mb ram, directX 9.0, and 128mb of video ram that is compatible with directX 9,.0. Monitor must be able to display 1024 x 728.

If you need more, give me your specs and I will tell you if it will work. Remember this is the minimum. It will run, but might be slow, hard to tell.

My system has 2gb RAM, with an NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE. My video ram size is 256mb. My system is a 2.8g system with 100 MB RAID 1 drives, running at 10K RPM. I am using an SB X-FI sound card. I also have a 120 mb portable drive with a Samsung 21 inch flat screen. System also contains a TV card for watching and recording TV programs. Op system is XP Media Center

Dennis, Ed

I play the game quite succesfully on an old desktop: Windows XP SP2 plus AMD Athlon 63 3000+ (rated at 1.9Ghz) with a 512 MB RAM and a NVIDIA GeForce MX4000 video card.

(My spiffing newer laptop is for SAS develoment ONLY! So I keep it as clean as).

Your comments re Egypt needing to be "unlocked" has me intrigued. I am playing the "Asia Pacific" version the original Medieval Total War game, and I can play any of the countries out of the blocks.

Footnote to Dennis - I have been playing the Almohads in the last few days. I have over stretched and now have to deal with a resurgent Egypt (which I had overrun) as well as a France that has suddenly gone all religious on me and started to attack my northern Spanish territories.

If I have one crit of the game it is with the AI (which I guess is a fairly major crit). The game engine I think starts attacks against you that are :
a. Stupid - ie wqhere the odds are ridiculously bagainst them
b. Too devious - eg the Egyptians have just resurrected themselves themsves in a province (Tripoli) I had captured a while before and that had supposedly had a loyalty above 100%. I do not think the loyalty figures are reliable.

Anyway, it is still a great game and I find myself coming back to it, sepite these annoyances.

Ed - I repeat, you need to get on to this game.

[tony_glazebrook]

Tony:

So do you speak Japanese? That would be useful thing in this world. Regarding Kropotkin, while at university I took a course on Russian history. One of the books we read was Kropotkin's autobiography of an anarchist. Interesting person and probably better than the Communists.

Do I need the Kingdoms expansion for Medieval War? I'm planning on getting it via NWS.

Stay well sir!

Watashi wa Asaturaria jin desu! (I am an Australian)

My japanese is very rusty and not much beyond the above now, although I found when travelling Japan years ago that "so desu ne!" was a useful phrase you could use in any context. It could mean - Ah, yes, I agree, or is that so, or almost anything else, depending on inflection.

My chinese (mandarin) is even more rusty - I never mastered proper speaking given the four basic tones but I loved learning the characters and was a bit of a dab hand at writing them after a while.

Kropotkin was someone I really warmed to - I read at least one of his books in first year uni. But I was a bit of an eccentric then - I was interested in chinese sung dynasty painting, a japanese philosopher Nishida Kitaro (who I ended up doing my honours thesis on) and various other eclectic byways...

Computer engineering was then not even on the horizon for me, althgough wargaming was - I remember playing a WW2 naval game with my best uni mate that my brother (mainly) and I had invented. I think my life has been a downward spiral of gradually surrendering to the inner nerd :-) I used to think I was a cool Arts student. Now, I am just an IT guy although at least gaming is at the "cooler" end of that.

All the best my friend. May you surrender to the medieval soul within you. Let those latin phrases burst forth! Let those primitive halberds do their handy work as you reap havoc and destruction across Europe in the name of God.

What is it about we educated folk who probably wouldn't say boo to a goose in real life being fascinated with wargaming. Is it our compensatory mechansim for not having joined the marines/SAS when younger? Or is it (as I like to think) a reflection of our heightened sense of power play, informed by an interest in history....Maybe the psychological side of all of this is worth its own thread..

Cheers my friend

[Ed Rotondaro]

Watashi wa Asaturaria jin desu! (I am an Australian)

My japanese is very rusty and not much beyond the above now, although I found when travelling Japan years ago that "so desu ne!" was a useful phrase you could use in any context. It could mean - Ah, yes, I agree, or is that so, or almost anything else, depending on inflection.

My chinese (mandarin) is even more rusty - I never mastered proper speaking given the four basic tones but I loved learning the characters and was a bit of a dab hand at writing them after a while.

Kropotkin was someone I really warmed to - I read at least one of his books in first year uni. But I was a bit of an eccentric then - I was interested in chinese sung dynasty painting, a japanese philosopher Nishida Kitaro (who I ended up doing my honours thesis on) and various other eclectic byways...

Computer engineering was then not even on the horizon for me, althgough wargaming was - I remember playing a WW2 naval game with my best uni mate that my brother (mainly) and I had invented. I think my life has been a downward spiral of gradually surrendering to the inner nerd :-) I used to think I was a cool Arts student. Now, I am just an IT guy although at least gaming is at the "cooler" end of that.

All the best my friend. May you surrender to the medieval soul within you. Let those latin phrases burst forth! Let those primitive halberds do their handy work as you reap havoc and destruction across Europe in the name of God.

What is it about we educated folk who probably wouldn't say boo to a goose in real life being fascinated with wargaming. Is it our compensatory mechansim for not having joined the marines/SAS when younger? Or is it (as I like to think) a reflection of our heightened sense of power play, informed by an interest in history....Maybe the psychological side of all of this is worth its own thread..

Cheers my friend

Tony:

You are truly a NWS character (it's a requirement according to Chris). I think that creative people are drawn to IT because of the incredible possibilities if offers. When I see the work that ordinary folks can do with a PC, so digital photography software and video editing or sound, its truly inspiring. My son plays baseball and one year one of the coaches on his team asked all the parents for any digital photos or video of the games. He put together a multimedia CD with video, music and still photos of the kids and their games that chronicled the entire season. Each kid got a copy. Totally amazing.

Wargaming and nerds. Interesting topic. I'm sure it has the same connection that comics does with nerds. We want to be the hero if we're not in real life. For me wargaming has been a way to enrich my study of history. I've always been a bit disappointed that PC games have not been as good as board games in some respects. I despise the first person shooters, they're vidoe arcade games at best. I prefer to try and fight a reasonable historical simulation that lets me make the grand strategic decisions. That's why I am looking forward to SAS. From all I've seen, it looks like a winner. And I warn you I will be harsh in my play testing. I want it to be the best.

Hope you have a mild winter old friend. Stay well and drink good wine.;)

[old_pop2000]

Tony:

You are truly a NWS character (it's a requirement according to Chris). I think that creative people are drawn to IT because of the incredible possibilities if offers. When I see the work that ordinary folks can do with a PC, so digital photography software and video editing or sound, its truly inspiring. My son plays baseball and one year one of the coaches on his team asked all the parents for any digital photos or video of the games. He put together a multimedia CD with video, music and still photos of the kids and their games that chronicled the entire season. Each kid got a copy. Totally amazing.

Wargaming and nerds. Interesting topic. I'm sure it has the same connection that comics does with nerds. We want to be the hero if we're not in real life. For me wargaming has been a way to enrich my study of history. I've always been a bit disappointed that PC games have not been as good as board games in some respects. I despise the first person shooters, they're vidoe arcade games at best. I prefer to try and fight a reasonable historical simulation that lets me make the grand strategic decisions. That's why I am looking forward to SAS. From all I've seen, it looks like a winner. And I warn you I will be harsh in my play testing. I want it to be the best.

Hope you have a mild winter old friend. Stay well and drink good wine.;)
Wargaming can really get you hooked. I used to play Avalon Hill and SSI games in the service. That was about all we had to do in the block house waiting for the shoe to drop with the Russians. Stalingrad was my favorite, so was Africa Korps. SSI had a game about Fulda Gap and the Russians, that was interesting.

Anyone remember the first PC based aircraft sim- Jet. I used to play that on my 8080.

[Saffron]

Living in a small town (population 750) offered about as much excitement as a blockhouse, so I ended up getting hooked on wargames, too. It actually became enough of a phenomena that our school librarian let us keep our games set up in the conference room for weeks on end, and only we had access.

Some of the ones we played most often were Gulf Strike (Victory Games), Task Force (I believe by SSI), Squad Leader and its various expansions (Avalon Hill), Harpoon (tabletop version with rulers and dice), and the 5 "Fleet" series games (we had all 5, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th Fleet).

Task Force was interesting because it came out before the Ticonderoga CGs were well known, so they ended up naming them after older decommissioned destroyers.

I also remember the entire 5 games of the "Fleet" series had a single Arleigh Burke class DDG because the first ship was still being built, so there was only one.

[tony_glazebrook]

Tony:

You are truly a NWS character (it's a requirement according to Chris). I think that creative people are drawn to IT because of the incredible possibilities if offers. When I see the work that ordinary folks can do with a PC, so digital photography software and video editing or sound, its truly inspiring. My son plays baseball and one year one of the coaches on his team asked all the parents for any digital photos or video of the games. He put together a multimedia CD with video, music and still photos of the kids and their games that chronicled the entire season. Each kid got a copy. Totally amazing.

Wargaming and nerds. Interesting topic. I'm sure it has the same connection that comics does with nerds. We want to be the hero if we're not in real life. For me wargaming has been a way to enrich my study of history. I've always been a bit disappointed that PC games have not been as good as board games in some respects. I despise the first person shooters, they're vidoe arcade games at best. I prefer to try and fight a reasonable historical simulation that lets me make the grand strategic decisions. That's why I am looking forward to SAS. From all I've seen, it looks like a winner. And I warn you I will be harsh in my play testing. I want it to be the best.

Hope you have a mild winter old friend. Stay well and drink good wine.;)

The latter advice Ed has been fully noted and I intend to follow it to the letter! I'm still on track to get the SAS beta out end of April, so you'll have your chance very soon my friend. :-) I am like an expectant father, equal parts excited and anxious...

[tony_glazebrook]

Wargaming can really get you hooked. I used to play Avalon Hill and SSI games in the service. That was about all we had to do in the block house waiting for the shoe to drop with the Russians. Stalingrad was my favorite, so was Africa Korps. SSI had a game about Fulda Gap and the Russians, that was interesting.

Anyone remember the first PC based aircraft sim- Jet. I used to play that on my 8080.

Dennis - I started with the Avalon Hill Panzer General series but I most liked the strategy games - Russian Campaign, War at Sea and Victory in the Pacific by my compatriot Jeff Edwards. The first PC game I remember getting hooked on was Carriers at War on the Commodore 64. I used to envy my mate who had the Apple version, and he had 16 colours!! The first PC games I got hooked on were the early Sid Meier games - Railroad Tycoon and of course Civilisation.

[old_pop2000]

Dennis - I started with the Avalon Hill Panzer General series but I most liked the strategy games - Russian Campaign, War at Sea and Victory in the Pacific by my compatriot Jeff Edwards. The first PC game I remember getting hooked on was Carriers at War on the Commodore 64. I used to envy my mate who had the Apple version, and he had 16 colours!! The first PC games I got hooked on were the early Sid Meier games - Railroad Tycoon and of course Civilisation.
I never had a Commodore 64. I had a TRS-80 and a TI-99, then went to an 8080 with Dos 2.0. I never had a 286, jumped to a 386. About that time, I was asked to setup the PC maintenance shop at North Island NAS and train the onsite techs. Then, I more computers to play with than I could ever wanted. When you came home, after fighting the initial battles of setting up and installing 3200 PC's, setting up the printers etc. Playing computer games tended to fall by the wayside. But I persevered.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Living in a small town (population 750) offered about as much excitement as a blockhouse, so I ended up getting hooked on wargames, too. It actually became enough of a phenomena that our school librarian let us keep our games set up in the conference room for weeks on end, and only we had access.

Some of the ones we played most often were Gulf Strike (Victory Games), Task Force (I believe by SSI), Squad Leader and its various expansions (Avalon Hill), Harpoon (tabletop version with rulers and dice), and the 5 "Fleet" series games (we had all 5, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th Fleet).

Task Force was interesting because it came out before the Ticonderoga CGs were well known, so they ended up naming them after older decommissioned destroyers.

I also remember the entire 5 games of the "Fleet" series had a single Arleigh Burke class DDG because the first ship was still being built, so there was only one.

Saffron:

You are a true American original. In a town of 750, you were the School marm LOL! Glad to have to aboard with the rest of us wargamers. I would be on your side anyday (especially if Kurt was playing too!).

[asnrobert]

Living in a small town (population 750) offered about as much excitement as a blockhouse, so I ended up getting hooked on wargames, too. It actually became enough of a phenomena that our school librarian let us keep our games set up in the conference room for weeks on end, and only we had access.

Some of the ones we played most often were Gulf Strike (Victory Games), Task Force (I believe by SSI), Squad Leader and its various expansions (Avalon Hill), Harpoon (tabletop version with rulers and dice), and the 5 "Fleet" series games (we had all 5, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th Fleet).

Task Force was interesting because it came out before the Ticonderoga CGs were well known, so they ended up naming them after older decommissioned destroyers.

I also remember the entire 5 games of the "Fleet" series had a single Arleigh Burke class DDG because the first ship was still being built, so there was only one.

I had several of VG's 'Fleet games.' I also had Avalon Hill's Jutland, Bismarck, Submarine, Wooden Ships and Iron Men (I also had the Commodore 64 version of that). I also had an interesting game called Fast Attack Boats by Yaquinto, which involved the missile boats of the Yom Kippur War.

[tony_glazebrook]

I had several of VG's 'Fleet games.' I also had Avalon Hill's Jutland, Bismarck, Submarine, Wooden Ships and Iron Men (I also had the Commodore 64 version of that). I also had an interesting game called Fast Attack Boats by Yaquinto, which involved the missile boats of the Yom Kippur War.

Robert - You remind me of wooden ships and iron men, I'd forgotten that. I also remember now two of the best games in my opinion, though not really wargames as such - Diplomacy, and Machiavelli. I recently got a copy of Diplomacy from Kurt; I wouldn't mind trying to get a copy of Machiavelli sometime. The art work was very good and it was like Diplomacy on steroids, with some more complex economic and political rules. The problem with both was getting 5-6 good players together for the half day you needed.

[tony_glazebrook]

I never had a Commodore 64. I had a TRS-80 and a TI-99, then went to an 8080 with Dos 2.0. I never had a 286, jumped to a 386. About that time, I was asked to setup the PC maintenance shop at North Island NAS and train the onsite techs. Then, I more computers to play with than I could ever wanted. When you came home, after fighting the initial battles of setting up and installing 3200 PC's, setting up the printers etc. Playing computer games tended to fall by the wayside. But I persevered.

Dennis - the Commodore 64 was a very good machine for its day and the one that got me into programming. The sprite based graphics and separate sound chip were ahead of its time. It's a shame that its follow on, the Amiga, which was a wonderful gaming platform, got sidelined. In those days, the PC was a step down in some ways. Who could have predicted its rise and rise (apart from one WIlliam Gates)!

[asnrobert]

Dennis - the Commodore 64 was a very good machine for its day and the one that got me into programming. The sprite based graphics and separate sound chip were ahead of its time. It's a shame that its follow on, the Amiga, which was a wonderful gaming platform, got sidelined. In those days, the PC was a step down in some ways. Who could have predicted its rise and rise (apart from one WIlliam Gates)!


I had an Amiga- awesome gaming machine. It was slow booting up, but the graphics were probably 5 years ahead of the PC. They also had photo and video editing software available (I believe one program was called Video Toaster), which I think was about 10 years ahead of anything similar for the PC.

[Ed Rotondaro]

Robert - You remind me of wooden ships and iron men, I'd forgotten that. I also remember now two of the best games in my opinion, though not really wargames as such - Diplomacy, and Machiavelli. I recently got a copy of Diplomacy from Kurt; I wouldn't mind trying to get a copy of Machiavelli sometime. The art work was very good and it was like Diplomacy on steroids, with some more complex economic and political rules. The problem with both was getting 5-6 good players together for the half day you needed.

Tony:

The second edition of Machiavelli is very expensive. Figure at least $50 US, more if it is in mint condition. I've been trying to acquire a copy for several years now.

[clacton2]

I had an Amiga- awesome gaming machine. It was slow booting up, but the graphics were probably 5 years ahead of the PC. They also had photo and video editing software available (I believe one program was called Video Toaster), which I think was about 10 years ahead of anything similar for the PC.

Hi,
I also had an Amiga when they first appeared, I really loved that machine and it's games.
Getting back to the original topic, I am a big fan of the Total War series of games, my favourite being Shogun, and my least favourite Rome.
Also love the game Diplomacy, but not heard of Machiavelli before, I will have to try and look it up when I get a spare minute ( not very likely at present ).
Jon;)

[tony_glazebrook]

Hi,
I also had an Amiga when they first appeared, I really loved that machine and it's games.
Getting back to the original topic, I am a big fan of the Total War series of games, my favourite being Shogun, and my least favourite Rome.
Also love the game Diplomacy, but not heard of Machiavelli before, I will have to try and look it up when I get a spare minute ( not very likely at present ).
Jon;)

Jon - Shogun is good but I prefer Medieval War - there is more variety I think. I agree that Rome is the least good, which is strange given it is third in the series and should be a further improvement. I just didn't like the isometric map. The old top down view was better IMHO. What is it about Rome you don't like?

[tony_glazebrook]

Tony:

The second edition of Machiavelli is very expensive. Figure at least $50 US, more if it is in mint condition. I've been trying to acquire a copy for several years now.
ED - aha - I have found another Machiavelli fan. I have not played it for probably over 30 years. Tell me, how did you first get into gaming?

[clacton2]

Jon - Shogun is good but I prefer Medieval War - there is more variety I think. I agree that Rome is the least good, which is strange given it is third in the series and should be a further improvement. I just didn't like the isometric map. The old top down view was better IMHO. What is it about Rome you don't like?

Tony,
I also did'nt like the maps, but more than that it was probably just because I knew a lot more about that part of history than I did about the Shogun and Medieval periods. Not the games fault but just my preference.
When Shogun first came out it was a pretty radical development in strategy gaming, whereas by the the time Rome arrived, it was pretty much old hat.
Jon;)

[Ed Rotondaro]

ED - aha - I have found another Machiavelli fan. I have not played it for probably over 30 years. Tell me, how did you first get into gaming?

Tony:

I was 13 at the time and some of my friends older brothers were playing Avalon Hill boardgames. The first game I played was Jutland which goes a long way to explaining why I like naval games (I still have my copy). I played several of the AH games while in high school and then took a breather while in college. I got back into it after I graduated and was facing four months of unemployment. Eventually a new game store opened and I got into role playing games with a group there. Then it was miniatures. Then Battletech. But after marriage and two children, about the only gaming I do is on the PC or playing Heroscape with my sons. I really enjoy Machiavelli because you have more options than just plain old diplomacy. I've had success playing as the Papal states and Milan. The trouble is finding enough players and being able to play for at least four hours, six is better.

[Saffron]

I would be on your side anyday (especially if Kurt was playing too!).

Why thank you Ed. It's been awhile, though, since I've played a tabletop war game. I'd love to do it again sometime, though. You may not want me on your side, however, because my dice rolls were so terrible they became legendary. People insisted I was cursed. :mad:

[Ed Rotondaro]

Why thank you Ed. It's been awhile, though, since I've played a tabletop war game. I'd love to do it again sometime, though. You may not want me on your side, however, because my dice rolls were so terrible they became legendary. People insisted I was cursed. :mad:

Saffron:

Don't worry, I roll dice badly too. In my last battletech battle I couldn't buy a hit when I needed one, meanwhile my opponent blows up one of my mechs with a critical hit and then blows the cockpit off of another one all in the space of two turns. And of course they were my two most powerful units. Oh well I had gaming at least. I bought Medieval Total War II as well additional RAM and a more powerful video card. We'll see how the game plays once everything arrives.

[Kyle Holgate]

Saffron:

Don't worry, I roll dice badly too. In my last battletech battle I couldn't buy a hit when I needed one, meanwhile my opponent blows up one of my mechs with a critical hit and then blows the cockpit off of another one all in the space of two turns. And of course they were my two most powerful units. Oh well I had gaming at least. I bought Medieval Total War II as well additional RAM and a more powerful video card. We'll see how the game plays once everything arrives.

I started gaming at 12 or so with Avalon Hill's War at Sea, then went on to Bismarck, Midway, War in the Pacific, Panzer blitz and finally Squad leader where I pretty much stopped as at 22 I went into the navy. In the Navy I discovered Starfleet Battles and played it constantly my entire 6 years of service. Since then however, I too have been stuck with just computer games.
My experience with dice is that I occasionally have "gremlin days" where the dang things screw with me constantly. I find it happens even with computer games though at times - even our Warship Combat occasionally goes sour for my side to the point where I become down right suspicious that Chris has coded it somehow to know it's me and is Fracking with me (to use a Battlestar Galactica term...)! Then all goes back to normal...
Still.. hmmmm. :mad:

[Ed Rotondaro]

I started gaming at 12 or so with Avalon Hill's War at Sea, then went on to Bismarck, Midway, War in the Pacific, Panzer blitz and finally Squad leader where I pretty much stopped as at 22 I went into the navy. In the Navy I discovered Starfleet Battles and played it constantly my entire 6 years of service. Since then however, I too have been stuck with just computer games.
My experience with dice is that I occasionally have "gremlin days" where the dang things screw with me constantly. I find it happens even with computer games though at times - even our Warship Combat occasionally goes sour for my side to the point where I become down right suspicious that Chris has coded it somehow to know it's me and is Fracking with me (to use a Battlestar Galactica term...)! Then all goes back to normal...
Still.. hmmmm. :mad:


Kyle :

I was running a mini campaign with the US versus a randomly generated opponent. Everythingis random, year, sea state, visibility, etc for crew skill level. I always set it to good for both sides for the first battle. I ended up fighting the Italians in 1941 and was soundly defeated (all ships sunk in the first two battles). The AI was scoring hits with PKs of 8 or 9 while I was missing with PKs of 20+. Sometimes the gods of probability go against you.

[tony_glazebrook]

Guys - to all you Total War fans - I couldn't help a little puff of the chest....Attached is a screen shot showing my Egyptian forces have just conquered all of Europe - every land province and sea area..I did it about 15 years before the cut off (of around mid 1400). I have done this only once before, again as the Egyptians. I think they have the easiest path. The other countries I have tried all degenerate into civil war just when things are going well, and you have to start all over again. I did this on the 'normal' level of difficulty, so I can't claim to have had a really tough gig.

When you win this way, the game launches into the credits for the game and I kid you not the pages just keep going and going, like the films where the credits list everyone includng the best boy's assistant rigger's wardrobe assistant's tea lady. I let it run and it was still going after 10 minutes!!! I don't know how the company made any money out of the game, with so many spear carriers!

Cheers all. Dennis - I hope you have perservered with Total War also.