Engineering an Empire

[old_pop2000]

One of the History channel series that I have enjoyed, has been the 'Engineering an Empire' series hosted by Professor Peter Weller(Robocop). I recently bought the entire series and have thoroughly enjoyed being able to watch the series without commercials.

I decided that I really wanted to delve into this subject more so I am looking on Google Books for volumes on this subject. I found one, 'The Ancient Engineers' written in the sixties by L. Sprague DeCamp. The name sounded familiar. It was, I had the book in my library. Anyway, I've started it, and hope to download some others from Google that are much older and free in PDF format.

I am hoping to find more recent information on the internet about individual engineering works in the ancient world.

If anyone wants to discuss some of this, It would be great.

[old_pop2000]

Diorite balls were used by the Egyptian cutters to carve trenches next to blocks for obelisks. Diorite is much harder than granite. According to DeCamp, with such a method, you can cut 1/5 inch per hour. I don't know how long the day is, but I would guess that would be about 1 inch per five hours or two inches per day. I doubt they got sunday's off, but for six days, that's 1 foot of granite removed. For one month, that's about 4-5 feet of granite removed. Of course, their calendars were different, but they still used the same basic sun-moon system of timing. If we assume that one side was six feet in width, then a typical obelisk could be chiseled out on two sides in about one month possibly two.

My question is how to chisel out the bottom side?

[Ed Rotondaro]

Diorite balls were used by the Egyptian cutters to carve trenches next to blocks for obelisks. Diorite is much harder than granite. According to DeCamp, with such a method, you can cut 1/5 inch per hour. I don't know how long the day is, but I would guess that would be about 1 inch per five hours or two inches per day. I doubt they got sunday's off, but for six days, that's 1 foot of granite removed. For one month, that's about 4-5 feet of granite removed. Of course, their calendars were different, but they still used the same basic sun-moon system of timing. If we assume that one side was six feet in width, then a typical obelisk could be chiseled out on two sides in about one month possibly two.

My question is how to chisel out the bottom side?

Dennis:

What exactly is diorite? I know that Weller was pursuing a PhD but I thought it was in art.

[old_pop2000]

Dennis:

What exactly is diorite? I know that Weller was pursuing a PhD but I thought it was in art.

Diorite, IIRC, is an intrusive igneous rock. It is 2/3 feldspar and 1/3 biotite and other minerals. It is similar to granite but harder. It is also less available. In construction I believe it is called black granite. On the surface, or extrusive, it is andesite. The San Gabriel Mts. of Southern California are diorite. It is usually found as a sill between granite layers. It is a very hard stone. I am not certain about its hardness on any scale, there is a scale but I am not sure that is applicable to rock or minerals.

Weller teaches a fine arts and literature class at Syracuse, holds an M.A. in Roman and Renaissance art. He is working on a PHD from Syracuse U.

[Christian Schwietzke]

Diorite balls were used by the Egyptian cutters to carve trenches next to blocks for obelisks. Diorite is much harder than granite. According to DeCamp, with such a method, you can cut 1/5 inch per hour. I don't know how long the day is, but I would guess that would be about 1 inch per five hours or two inches per day. I doubt they got sunday's off, but for six days, that's 1 foot of granite removed. For one month, that's about 4-5 feet of granite removed. Of course, their calendars were different, but they still used the same basic sun-moon system of timing. If we assume that one side was six feet in width, then a typical obelisk could be chiseled out on two sides in about one month possibly two.

My question is how to chisel out the bottom side?

The engineering work for the Great Pyramids and their attending decorations is nothing short of miraculous. They truly deserve their status as Wonders of the World.

[old_pop2000]

The engineering work for the Great Pyramids and their attending decorations is nothing short of miraculous. They truly deserve their status as Wonders of the World.

What is more interesting is how different civilizations coped with the lack of building materials. Northern europe had good hardwoods, but Mesopotamian civilization had to import most of it along with any stone from the northern mountains running from southern Turkey to their northern borders. For those times, that was a long way.

The regularity of the floods in Egypt and the granite and diorite along with limestone greatly assisted the rise of the engineer in Egyptian culture and civilization.

[Mike Malanaphy]

Diorite balls were used by the Egyptian cutters to carve trenches next to blocks for obelisks. Diorite is much harder than granite. According to DeCamp, with such a method, you can cut 1/5 inch per hour. I don't know how long the day is, but I would guess that would be about 1 inch per five hours or two inches per day. I doubt they got sunday's off, but for six days, that's 1 foot of granite removed. For one month, that's about 4-5 feet of granite removed. Of course, their calendars were different, but they still used the same basic sun-moon system of timing. If we assume that one side was six feet in width, then a typical obelisk could be chiseled out on two sides in about one month possibly two.

My question is how to chisel out the bottom side?

Hi Dennis,

I got DeCamps' book as a teenager and it still is a pretty decent reference today for the lay person. If i remember correctly, in the episode on Egypt has a demonstration of such stone cutting as used even today in Egypt. Once the side trenches were cut, copper wedges were used to split the section from the rest of the rock. He showed at least one example of a broken obelisk in an old quarry.

The level of craftmanship and engineering skill shown by the ancients is truly amazing when you look at the Pyramids, the Great Wall, the Roman aqueduct system, and many others. Even today it is not clear exactly how they were done. It's been 30 years since Von Daniken's claim that only Aliens could have built them, so another wave of nonsense regarding their contruction should be due on the horizon.

[old_pop2000]

Hi Dennis,

I got DeCamps' book as a teenager and it still is a pretty decent reference today for the lay person. If i remember correctly, in the episode on Egypt has a demonstration of such stone cutting as used even today in Egypt. Once the side trenches were cut, copper wedges were used to split the section from the rest of the rock. He showed at least one example of a broken obelisk in an old quarry.

The level of craftmanship and engineering skill shown by the ancients is truly amazing when you look at the Pyramids, the Great Wall, the Roman aqueduct system, and many others. Even today it is not clear exactly how they were done. It's been 30 years since Von Daniken's claim that only Aliens could have built them, so another wave of nonsense regarding their contruction should be due on the horizon.

I've had this book for a long time, it is a good basic book. Dated perhaps, but that's ok. I assumed that the copper wedges were the way to do it, thanks.

I remember Erik Von Daniken and his talk of aliens. Funny but with further archeological research, most of his assertions have been proven fanciful. But maybe they generated interest and a new crop of archeologist went out to prove him wrong.

[Mike Malanaphy]

I've had this book for a long time, it is a good basic book. Dated perhaps, but that's ok. I assumed that the copper wedges were the way to do it, thanks.

I remember Erik Von Daniken and his talk of aliens. Funny but with further archeological research, most of his assertions have been proven fanciful. But maybe they generated interest and a new crop of archeologist went out to prove him wrong.

Hi Dennis,

He still retains a following to this day despite admitting on 60 Minutes in the late 70s that most of his books were made up. Its always fun to go to SNOPES.com top keep up with the latest urban legends....anbd there are no shortage of them regarding ancient civilizations.

[old_pop2000]

Hi Dennis,

He still retains a following to this day despite admitting on 60 Minutes in the late 70s that most of his books were made up. Its always fun to go to SNOPES.com top keep up with the latest urban legends....anbd there are no shortage of them regarding ancient civilizations.

All one had to do, is a little research. Of course, in the days before the internet, that was difficult. So people just accepted that he had some evidence. Funny.