SPWAW

[old_pop2000]

I've always enjoyed Steel Panthers, all three versions. SPWAW is a continuation of that great game, so is SPWW2 and SPMBT. SPWAW is a modification of the original but I believe they used the Steel Panthers II gaming engine. Anyway, I played an interesting scenario that takes place at Beda Fomm. Beda Fomm is in NA and was the scene of a great tank battle in February 1941 between the British under Richard O'Conner and the Italians. It essentially broke the back of the Italian forces.

The scenario takes place near the town of Beda Fomm and it is a meeting engagement between a mixed Italian tank-infantry force and a like British force of Cruiser MkIIIs, Daimler Dingos, Marmon-Harringtons and infantry with some Boys .55 cal AT rifles. (Almost useless unless you can see fly pooh on the opponents tanks).

Now, infantry in the desert is almost useless, unless they can dig in, especially against a tank force. So, I immediately realized that the best course of action, was to move my Morris trucks and Bren Gun carriers back into Beda Fomm, unload, deploy in the city in the buildings and let the opponent come to me. Doesn't sound aggressive, but trust me, in the desert, if you can find some good ground or a village, use it as a base of fire.

My 6-8 tanks were deployed behind the town, on either side. One of the problems with the game is that, unless you are playing a human, if you fire your gun, the computer will fire back with two or three of his, he can do this, and you can't. So, my strategy is to fire once or twice, then back up and redeploy. When I did this, the computer can't fire back.

Anyway, I decided to forget about the objectives, figuring that if I routed his force, the objectives would fall easily. My strategy worked to perfection. The computer deployed his tank infantry teams moved up hill toward the town and ..... like the man said ' they came on in the same old way, and we killed them in the same old way' or something like that. I then used my armoured cars and went around the flank, and reoccupied the victory squares and was given a satisfying, crushing victory.

Moral: Just because it is a meeting engagement, doesn't mean I have to rush headlong into an area of poor ground that offers no cover.

Fun was had by all:p

[asnrobert]

Fun was had by all:p

Well, except maybe for the Italians... :cool:

[old_pop2000]

Well, except maybe for the Italians... :cool:

Ahhh!! It was all in good fun, even we Italians would understand.;)

[Mike Malanaphy]

I've always enjoyed Steel Panthers, all three versions. SPWAW is a continuation of that great game, so is SPWW2 and SPMBT. SPWAW is a modification of the original but I believe they used the Steel Panthers II gaming engine. Anyway, I played an interesting scenario that takes place at Beda Fomm. Beda Fomm is in NA and was the scene of a great tank battle in February 1941 between the British under Richard O'Conner and the Italians. It essentially broke the back of the Italian forces.

The scenario takes place near the town of Beda Fomm and it is a meeting engagement between a mixed Italian tank-infantry force and a like British force of Cruiser MkIIIs, Daimler Dingos, Marmon-Harringtons and infantry with some Boys .55 cal AT rifles. (Almost useless unless you can see fly pooh on the opponents tanks).

Now, infantry in the desert is almost useless, unless they can dig in, especially against a tank force. So, I immediately realized that the best course of action, was to move my Morris trucks and Bren Gun carriers back into Beda Fomm, unload, deploy in the city in the buildings and let the opponent come to me. Doesn't sound aggressive, but trust me, in the desert, if you can find some good ground or a village, use it as a base of fire.

My 6-8 tanks were deployed behind the town, on either side. One of the problems with the game is that, unless you are playing a human, if you fire your gun, the computer will fire back with two or three of his, he can do this, and you can't. So, my strategy is to fire once or twice, then back up and redeploy. When I did this, the computer can't fire back.

Anyway, I decided to forget about the objectives, figuring that if I routed his force, the objectives would fall easily. My strategy worked to perfection. The computer deployed his tank infantry teams moved up hill toward the town and ..... like the man said ' they came on in the same old way, and we killed them in the same old way' or something like that. I then used my armoured cars and went around the flank, and reoccupied the victory squares and was given a satisfying, crushing victory.

Moral: Just because it is a meeting engagement, doesn't mean I have to rush headlong into an area of poor ground that offers no cover.

Fun was had by all:p

Hi Dennis,

Good job, nice to see a game that rewards good tactics. Even in meeting engagements and the offense, taking cover and letting the enemy come to you is always an advantage unless you can hit the rear or flank. In one scenario in Combat Mission Shock Force, I let my Challenger IIs take up postions to cover the valley ahead and lost one to an AT missile. I have SPMBT, guess I'll have to get the WW II version as well. If you doubt the power of AT missiles, SPMBT has a couple of Oct 73 war scenarios where you can feel what the Israelis experienced in the Sinai My wife got me a 26" widescreen monitor the other day for my anniversary and it's awesome. I was worried about having problems with older games, but all worked fine and look spectacular, especially SH IV before it crashes to desktop. You can smell the cordite and diesel fumes. I told the wife, I was going to have to crank up my sub woofer again. : )

If you get the 3D bug, Combat Mission Afrika Corps is excellent as well with a wide selection of scenarios and a shake and bake scenario generator.

[old_pop2000]

Hi Dennis,

Good job, nice to see a game that rewards good tactics. Even in meeting engagements and the offense, taking cover and letting the enemy come to you is always an advantage unless you can hit the rear or flank. In one scenario in Combat Mission Shock Force, I let my Challenger IIs take up postions to cover the valley ahead and lost one to an AT missile. I have SPMBT, guess I'll have to get the WW II version as well. If you doubt the power of AT missiles, SPMBT has a couple of Oct 73 war scenarios where you can feel what the Israelis experienced in the Sinai My wife got me a 26" widescreen monitor the other day for my anniversary and it's awesome. I was worried about having problems with older games, but all worked fine and look spectacular, especially SH IV before it crashes to desktop. You can smell the cordite and diesel fumes. I told the wife, I was going to have to crank up my sub woofer again. : )

If you get the 3D bug, Combat Mission Afrika Corps is excellent as well with a wide selection of scenarios and a shake and bake scenario generator.

I might just get that bug:p

I have SPWW2 and SPMBT that I bought from NWS. I've played the October 73 scenarios and you really have no cover in the desert. I have a 32 inch flat screen and a 23 inch side by side. I can play a game and surf the net, its great. Love flat screens.

[Mike Malanaphy]

I might just get that bug:p

I have SPWW2 and SPMBT that I bought from NWS. I've played the October 73 scenarios and you really have no cover in the desert. I have a 32 inch flat screen and a 23 inch side by side. I can play a game and surf the net, its great. Love flat screens.

WOW! What strength SPF do you wear when you play! : )

[old_pop2000]

WOW! What strength SPF do you wear when you play! : )


I am not certain what the acronym SPF means? Probably something I should know, just stupid.:p

[Mike Malanaphy]

I am not certain what the acronym SPF means? Probably something I should know, just stupid.:p

Hi Dennis,

SPF equals sun protection factor as in your sun screen lotion. : ) Is your 32" monitor just an HDTV or a computer monitor?

[old_pop2000]

Hi Dennis,

SPF equals sun protection factor as in your sun screen lotion. : ) Is your 32" monitor just an HDTV or a computer monitor?


Ha Ha!! Yea, I should have known that one. Both are computer monitors but I also have an HDTV 33 inch Samsung in the same room that I watch TV on. Since my son works for Cox, I have HD channels and movies. My computer is a Media Center PC so I can watch TV on my computer and record the programs. When you are retired, you have to have all the toys.:p

All I need now is the receiver and barrel assy for my AR-15 then I am setup.

[asnrobert]

Now, infantry in the desert is almost useless, unless they can dig in, especially against a tank force. So, I immediately realized that the best course of action, was to move my Morris trucks and Bren Gun carriers back into Beda Fomm, unload, deploy in the city in the buildings and let the opponent come to me. Doesn't sound aggressive, but trust me, in the desert, if you can find some good ground or a village, use it as a base of fire.

My 6-8 tanks were deployed behind the town, on either side. One of the problems with the game is that, unless you are playing a human, if you fire your gun, the computer will fire back with two or three of his, he can do this, and you can't. So, my strategy is to fire once or twice, then back up and redeploy. When I did this, the computer can't fire back.

Anyway, I decided to forget about the objectives, figuring that if I routed his force, the objectives would fall easily. My strategy worked to perfection. The computer deployed his tank infantry teams moved up hill toward the town and ..... like the man said ' they came on in the same old way, and we killed them in the same old way' or something like that. I then used my armoured cars and went around the flank, and reoccupied the victory squares and was given a satisfying, crushing victory.

Moral: Just because it is a meeting engagement, doesn't mean I have to rush headlong into an area of poor ground that offers no cover.


I don't have any of the Steel Panthers games (something I may need to rectify), but it reminds me of the strategy I employed when playing Civil Wars Generals 2 by Sierra, a brigade level game. I often find that the best offense is a good defense. I dig in my troops and let the enemy batter himself senseless (like the Confederates at Fredericksburg or the Union at Gettysburg), then mop up. I only go on the offensive from the beginning if I have a 3:1 or more superiority. As for the victory squares, they vary over the course of the game- those far from the fighting will decrease in value and perhaps even disappear, while new victory squares will appear in the areas that are fiercely fought over (so in many circumstances, the most valuable ground in the game is the area you're holding).

[old_pop2000]

I don't have any of the Steel Panthers games (something I may need to rectify), but it reminds me of the strategy I employed when playing Civil Wars Generals 2 by Sierra, a brigade level game. I often find that the best offense is a good defense. I dig in my troops and let the enemy batter himself senseless (like the Confederates at Fredericksburg or the Union at Gettysburg), then mop up. I only go on the offensive from the beginning if I have a 3:1 or more superiority. As for the victory squares, they vary over the course of the game- those far from the fighting will decrease in value and perhaps even disappear, while new victory squares will appear in the areas that are fiercely fought over (so in many circumstances, the most valuable ground in the game is the area you're holding).

I used to have both of the Sierra Civil War series and a good defensive position was the best way to win. To go on offensive, it was best to try to hit a flank or turning movement to hit the position from the rear. Good strategy, matched what was found during the war itself.

[steel_selachian]

I'm usually more one for naval tactics games, but lately I've been playing Spring: 1944, which is a WWII-based RTS running on an open-source 3D engine. Realism is somewhat iffy - like a lot of RTS games, you start with a few starting units and have to build barracks and yards for troops, arty, and vehicles. The AI is kind of simpleminded too - really aggressive early on in seizing territory and it usually gets stuff built faster than the player, but once you get enough units out to stop it it will merrily walk right into a killzone over and over again, without trying to mass forces for a breakthrough or outflank defensive positions.

Defensive positioning does a lot in that game; I'll often switch the map view to "contour" and do as much as I can with the terrain. A company of King Tigers occupying hull-down positions in the hills overlooking a pass with screening infantry, MG42 nests, and a couple 105s backing them up ... well, what ensues can probably be described as obscene. Ditto for playing the Sovs and having some IS-2s and ISU-152s in a similar position.

[Mike Malanaphy]

I'm usually more one for naval tactics games, but lately I've been playing Spring: 1944, which is a WWII-based RTS running on an open-source 3D engine. Realism is somewhat iffy - like a lot of RTS games, you start with a few starting units and have to build barracks and yards for troops, arty, and vehicles. The AI is kind of simpleminded too - really aggressive early on in seizing territory and it usually gets stuff built faster than the player, but once you get enough units out to stop it it will merrily walk right into a killzone over and over again, without trying to mass forces for a breakthrough or outflank defensive positions.

Defensive positioning does a lot in that game; I'll often switch the map view to "contour" and do as much as I can with the terrain. A company of King Tigers occupying hull-down positions in the hills overlooking a pass with screening infantry, MG42 nests, and a couple 105s backing them up ... well, what ensues can probably be described as obscene. Ditto for playing the Sovs and having some IS-2s and ISU-152s in a similar position.

Hi Steel,

Use of terrain and line of sight are critical in combat. One of the problems with the Steel Panthers series is terrain is harder to use due to the 2D display. The Combat Mission series from Battlefront uses a 3d engine which is a lot of fun. You have an orders phase where you enter yoru movement and fire orders and then watch the 60 second turn unfold as both side execute simultaneously. You can replay the turn like a VCR, watching from either side and see that 88 snipe your exposed Sherman. You can check each units fire record and see who killed what. Their is a line of sight tool you can extend from a unit that shows breaks in it and dead spot, allowing you to find and use folds in the ground to your advantage. There is Combat Mission Overlord with Allies versus the Germans, Combat Mission Barbarossa with the Soviets versus the Germans, and Combat Mission Afrika Korps with the Germans and Italians versus the British and Americans. Tons of scenarios, huge data base, editor, and random scenario generator make these great games. You can get them through NWS also.

I'm not familar with Spring 1944, but know what you mean about iffy realism. There's nothing wrong with that for playability, but you'll find the Combat Mission series very realistic and lots of fun.

[old_pop2000]

Hi Steel,

Use of terrain and line of sight are critical in combat. One of the problems with the Steel Panthers series is terrain is harder to use due to the 2D display. The Combat Mission series from Battlefront uses a 3d engine which is a lot of fun. You have an orders phase where you enter yoru movement and fire orders and then watch the 60 second turn unfold as both side execute simultaneously. You can replay the turn like a VCR, watching from either side and see that 88 snipe your exposed Sherman. Their is a line of sight toll you can extend from a unit that shows breaks in it and dead spot, allowing you to find and use folds in the ground to your advantage. There is Combat Mission Overload with Allies versus the germans, Combat Mission Barbarossa with the Soviets versus the Germans, and Combat Mission Afrika Korps with the Germans and Italians versus the British and Americans. Tons of scenarios, huge data base, editor, and random scenario generator make these great games. You can get them through NWS also.

Ok, ok, you've convinced me to buy Combat Mission series, just for the 3d terrain issue.

[Mike Malanaphy]

Ok, ok, you've convinced me to buy Combat Mission series, just for the 3d terrain issue.

Hi Dennis,

I hope you enjoy them. It's well worth it so you can be Michael Wittman at Villers Bocage in Combat Mission Overlord. : ) Nothing like stalking Cromwells and Shermans block by block in a rustic French village. My only issue with them is that larger scenarios can be difficult to control and monitor. But there are plenty of small ones and you can generate as many as you want with whatever forces you want.

[old_pop2000]

Hi Dennis,

I hope you enjoy them. It's well worth it so you can be Michael Wittman at Villers Bocage in Combat Mission Overlord. : ) Nothing like stalking Cromwells and Shermans block by block in a rustic French village. My only issue with them is that larger scenarios can be difficult to control and monitor. But there are plenty of small ones and you can generate as many as you want with whatever forces you want.

They are on my next year list, with Christmas, anniversary, two birthdays and property taxes and homeowners insurance, its time to pull in the horns. Actually, I already have the money for those, but I am very conservative. Plus, I want to take a christmas trip, never done that.

[Mike Malanaphy]

They are on my next year list, with Christmas, anniversary, two birthdays and property taxes and homeowners insurance, its time to pull in the horns. Actually, I already have the money for those, but I am very conservative. Plus, I want to take a christmas trip, never done that.

Hi Dennis,

I hope the elves work their magic. : ) Each iteration is just a little better graphically, but all are fun to play. It's fun to be able to use some of lesser known vehicles out of the database for the scenario generator. Anything you want is in there. It would be nice if they used the same engine for post WW II actions like the Middle East, but soon perhaps.

[steel_selachian]

Hi Steel,

Use of terrain and line of sight are critical in combat. One of the problems with the Steel Panthers series is terrain is harder to use due to the 2D display. The Combat Mission series from Battlefront uses a 3d engine which is a lot of fun. You have an orders phase where you enter yoru movement and fire orders and then watch the 60 second turn unfold as both side execute simultaneously. You can replay the turn like a VCR, watching from either side and see that 88 snipe your exposed Sherman. You can check each units fire record and see who killed what. Their is a line of sight tool you can extend from a unit that shows breaks in it and dead spot, allowing you to find and use folds in the ground to your advantage. There is Combat Mission Overlord with Allies versus the Germans, Combat Mission Barbarossa with the Soviets versus the Germans, and Combat Mission Afrika Korps with the Germans and Italians versus the British and Americans. Tons of scenarios, huge data base, editor, and random scenario generator make these great games. You can get them through NWS also.

I'm not familar with Spring 1944, but know what you mean about iffy realism. There's nothing wrong with that for playability, but you'll find the Combat Mission series very realistic and lots of fun.

S1944 is basically a free project (critical for a starving graduate student :rolleyes:) you can download; it's based off the Spring Project, which was originally an independent attempt to turn the old Total Annihilation RTS made by now-defunct Cavedog into a 3d game. Realism is a bit iffy as mentioned, but the 3d graphics are good, you can pick multiple camera angles, and my favorite feature is being able to take first-person command of units (there's a bug that prohibits this from being useful for infantry, but for vehicles, aircraft and gun emplacements it works fine). That means you can pick out good terrain features and drive your tanks into the right positions, making the "88 snipe" particularly vicious.

Vehicle selection is a bit restricted to avoid having tons of units to model and include, but the Germans get the Tiger I and II, Panther, late-model Pzkw IV and III, StuG III, Jagdpanzer IV, and Marder; the Russians have the IS-2, ISU-152, T-34-85, T-34-76, T-70, T-60, SU-100, and SU-76; the Brits get the Sherman Firefly, Cromwell (standard and 95mm support variant), Churchill, 17-pdr Achilles, and AEC Mk. II; and the Americans have the M3 Stuart, M8 Scott, M8 Greyhound, M10 tank destroyer and M4 Sherman (in standard, 76mm, 105mm howitzer, and Jumbo variants). There's some other fun stuff, such as airstrikes (you build an air control center and call in interceptor, fighter, ground attack, and fighter-bomber sorties) and special "sneaking" units like AT infantry, scouts, snipers, flamethrower troops (US only), commandos (Brits only), and partisans (Soviets only). The program's still being worked on; I believe the next release is expected to add twin-engine bombers, paratrooper drops, and possibly the Jagdpanther TD.

As for the realism, I'll perhaps try playing it over LAN with some friends when I go home to PA for Christmas - in my experience an AI is poor preparation for my neighhbor's sixth-grader

[Mike Malanaphy]

S1944 is basically a free project (critical for a starving graduate student :rolleyes:) you can download; it's based off the Spring Project, which was originally an independent attempt to turn the old Total Annihilation RTS made by now-defunct Cavedog into a 3d game. Realism is a bit iffy as mentioned, but the 3d graphics are good, you can pick multiple camera angles, and my favorite feature is being able to take first-person command of units (there's a bug that prohibits this from being useful for infantry, but for vehicles, aircraft and gun emplacements it works fine). That means you can pick out good terrain features and drive your tanks into the right positions, making the "88 snipe" particularly vicious.

Vehicle selection is a bit restricted to avoid having tons of units to model and include, but the Germans get the Tiger I and II, Panther, late-model Pzkw IV and III, StuG III, Jagdpanzer IV, and Marder; the Russians have the IS-2, ISU-152, T-34-85, T-34-76, T-70, T-60, SU-100, and SU-76; the Brits get the Sherman Firefly, Cromwell (standard and 95mm support variant), Churchill, 17-pdr Achilles, and AEC Mk. II; and the Americans have the M3 Stuart, M8 Scott, M8 Greyhound, M10 tank destroyer and M4 Sherman (in standard, 76mm, 105mm howitzer, and Jumbo variants). There's some other fun stuff, such as airstrikes (you build an air control center and call in interceptor, fighter, ground attack, and fighter-bomber sorties) and special "sneaking" units like AT infantry, scouts, snipers, flamethrower troops (US only), commandos (Brits only), and partisans (Soviets only). The program's still being worked on; I believe the next release is expected to add twin-engine bombers, paratrooper drops, and possibly the Jagdpanther TD.

As for the realism, I'll perhaps try playing it over LAN with some friends when I go home to PA for Christmas - in my experience an AI is poor preparation for my neighhbor's sixth-grader

Sounds likes good clean fun.

[Kyle Holgate]

I have all 4 combat mission games, meaning the 3 WW2 ones and Shock Force which is a modern era wargame. The latter deals with an invasion of Syria in 2008. Abrams and Chellengers and T-90's oh my!
There is a CM Normandy coming some time, updated engine and what not. That's the one I'm really waiting for. No Anti Tank missiles! Thos things are a biatch!

[steel_selachian]

Sounds likes good clean fun.

The first-person control is especially fun; taking command of a King Tiger or IS-2 and rolling it right into what's left of the enemy's base camp to finish off the game is a ball. One time in a King Tiger I turned the corner and was quickly swarmed by partisans intent on turning me into a bonfire with Molotov cocktails. My infantry backup and the rest of my heavy armor swept off the ones I didn't gun down, after which I continued and found four enemy AFVs (two T-34-76s, one ISU-152, and one T-70) waiting for me. Killed all four while taking negligible damage, destroyed a few more tanks and halftracks, flattened an infantry barracks, and then took out the armor yard to end the game. Being able to control aircraft is fun too; rolling in on a vehicle column in an Il-2 produces sickening results.

The game is realistic in that just rushing in unscreened tanks is a bad move; AT infantry and partisans have the ability to sneak closer to enemy units than regular grunts (who can also swarm over a vehicle and knock it out with grenades, albeit with heavy casualties). German AT teams (two Panzerfaust 60s and one Panzerschreck) are easily capable of destroying any vehicle in the game outright. Soviet partisans, while cheap cannon fodder on open ground (they drop easily, have horrendous accuracy and less range than a Soviet rifleman armed with the same Mosin-Nagant 1891), are a nightmare for vehicles in rough or confined terrain. US flamethrower teams are also a nasty surprise in broken terrain.

Another fun aspect: snipers. Sneak them into overwatch positions in the hills surrounding a chokepoint or overlooking an enemy barracks and they make for some of the highest-scoring units in the game.