Why no operational U-boat campaign games?

[Antonin]

I sometimes play Silent Hunter III, but I've often wondered why there isn't an operational game on the U-boat campaign.

I really enjoy Defending the Reich, because it lets me plan and orchestrate an entire strategic bombing campaign.

But I'd really love to have a game that lets me be Doenitz, sitting in my HQ, orchestrating a submarine campaign against allied shipping, directing my boats to likely convoy areas and receiving reports of their results.

Why isn't there such a game? Not much is needed in the way of graphics. I don't want another shoot-em-up type submarine game. I want to be, as the designer notes for the submarine board game Silent War put it, "the chief financial officer to the Grim Reaper," calculating, planning...

[old_pop2000]

I sometimes play Silent Hunter III, but I've often wondered why there isn't an operational game on the U-boat campaign.

I really enjoy Defending the Reich, because it lets me plan and orchestrate an entire strategic bombing campaign.

But I'd really love to have a game that lets me be Doenitz, sitting in my HQ, orchestrating a submarine campaign against allied shipping, directing my boats to likely convoy areas and receiving reports of their results.

Why isn't there such a game? Not much is needed in the way of graphics. I don't want another shoot-em-up type submarine game. I want to be, as the designer notes for the submarine board game Silent War put it, "the chief financial officer to the Grim Reaper," calculating, planning...

Look for a game called "Aces of the Deep". I haven't seen around for a while but if you can find it, possibly NWS used games has it. The best version was Command Aces of the Deep. It was released in 1995, so it is probably DOS.

[Antonin]

Ah yes, AoD. I do have it, although because it's DOS I don't play it any more. It was quite fun back in the day. I have many great, great memories of many great war patrols [and deaths]. Silent Hunter III is the most recent version of AoD.

What I'd like is a game that lets me command the entirety of the U-boat force and direct individual boats as they search for convoys. Order them to shadow a convoy or attack, or break off an attack. I want a game that includes all the so-called 'aces' and gives me the option to recall and retire my favorites if I want [i.e., Prien, Kretschmer, etc]. Give me command points like Defending the Reich does, so I can research new technology, introduce new boats, etc.

I'm not into the eye candy type of game [although SHIII is absolutely gorgeous]. I prefer to plan things, wage a campaign, etc. Defending the Reich is perfect for this--it's become so I wince every time I lose a bomber during a mission.

I'd like to get that same feeling playing a U-boat game. It's amazing that no one has introduced such a game.

[old_pop2000]

Ah yes, AoD. I do have it, although because it's DOS I don't play it any more. It was quite fun back in the day. I have many great, great memories of many great war patrols [and deaths]. Silent Hunter III is the most recent version of AoD.

What I'd like is a game that lets me command the entirety of the U-boat force and direct individual boats as they search for convoys. Order them to shadow a convoy or attack, or break off an attack. I want a game that includes all the so-called 'aces' and gives me the option to recall and retire my favorites if I want [i.e., Prien, Kretschmer, etc]. Give me command points like Defending the Reich does, so I can research new technology, introduce new boats, etc.

I'm not into the eye candy type of game [although SHIII is absolutely gorgeous]. I prefer to plan things, wage a campaign, etc. Defending the Reich is perfect for this--it's become so I wince every time I lose a bomber during a mission.

I'd like to get that same feeling playing a U-boat game. It's amazing that no one has introduced such a game.

I haven't seen a game of that genre, but I agree, I enjoy Defending the Reich also. I like War over Vietnam. I used to enjoy flight sims, but after thirty-four years around naval aircraft, you tend to lose the fun. It all seems like work. I enjoy Battle of Britain by Talonsoft and 12 O'clock high. I enjoy the operational level games.

With My Compliments

[Antonin]

War Over Vietnam is nice, but the map is just hideous. Southeast Asia is beautiful from the air, and a game on the air campaign against the DRV should reflect that. The map should look roughly like what any US airman flying below the clouds could see beneath him.

Also, WoV doesn't really give the player much to do. You can't plan your own strikes. You just have canned 'scenarios' where the only thing you can really do is change the direction from which your planes hit the target. Unless I'm missing something, the main thing you do when playing WoV is watch the strike take place. Very disappointing.

I bought the game Jutland, but there isn't much to do in that game either.

I used to enjoy flight sims, mainly the original Red Baron. Red Baron 3D always gave me a headache [literally--something about the 3D caused me to feel disoriented].

I've played a couple of modern flight sims but things move too fast to be enjoyable for me. At my age I just don't have the hand-eye coordination to keep up.

If somebody made a WWI flight sim that wasn't a system hog I would buy it.

I loved the old game Apache. I believe it was DOS. One of my best moments with that game was completing a mission and landing safely on a helicopter carrier.

[old_pop2000]

War Over Vietnam is nice, but the map is just hideous. Southeast Asia is beautiful from the air, and a game on the air campaign against the DRV should reflect that. The map should look roughly like what any US airman flying below the clouds could see beneath him.

Also, WoV doesn't really give the player much to do. You can't plan your own strikes. You just have canned 'scenarios' where the only thing you can really do is change the direction from which your planes hit the target. Unless I'm missing something, the main thing you do when playing WoV is watch the strike take place. Very disappointing.

I bought the game Jutland, but there isn't much to do in that game either.

I used to enjoy flight sims, mainly the original Red Baron. Red Baron 3D always gave me a headache [literally--something about the 3D caused me to feel disoriented].

I've played a couple of modern flight sims but things move too fast to be enjoyable for me. At my age I just don't have the hand-eye coordination to keep up.

If somebody made a WWI flight sim that wasn't a system hog I would buy it.

I loved the old game Apache. I believe it was DOS. One of my best moments with that game was completing a mission and landing safely on a helicopter carrier.

WOV's map is a little sparce, but I suspect the use of real aeronautical charts of the region would not have added much unless you were moving from the strategic to the tactical and flying the plane. At the altitude of the bombing missions to RP 6, 6A and 5, the altitudes were about 10,000 feet and higher. More in the 20,000 feet region. You can't see much except some overall colors. I believe that more response to WoV might have engendered more advances in the game.

As for system hog flight sims, it goes with the territory. Modern military flight sims use banks of computers to provide accurate simulated flight. They would have to use turn on the multiprocessing power of the servers to be even more accurate on desktops. That gets expensive and few of us can afford four processor, dual bus servers. I've purchased, setup and managed a large server farm for the US Governement, and they are expensive and require full time management.

[Antonin]

WOV's map is a little sparce, but I suspect the use of real aeronautical charts of the region would not have added much unless you were moving from the strategic to the tactical and flying the plane. At the altitude of the bombing missions to RP 6, 6A and 5, the altitudes were about 10,000 feet and higher. More in the 20,000 feet region. You can't see much except some overall colors...

And the overall color of SE Asia from the air is green, not Libya tan. :) Having flown over SE Asia a couple of times, that was something that really impressed me: how beautiful it was.

If a company is going to charge $49.95 for a game [and not even provide a demo], for the map to look like it was drawn by a 7-year-old is pretty disappointing. When I play a wargame, I want to immerse myself in the event being gamed or simulated. I'm not an eye-candy guy, but some things are pretty basic and, to me, a matter of common sense. If I were developing a naval game, I certainly would not make the map white. If I were developing a Middle East air war game, I would not make the map of the terrain sky blue.

But, back to the original topic, I'm very surprised that no company has developed an operational level U-boat game.

[Warship NWS]

To Antonin, you can run an "operational" U-boat campaign within Supremacy at Sea. ;)

As to WoV.. note, we have a sale going on for ALL HPS games at prices of $29.99 or less.

I would state this however, WOV is good tactical simulation of aerial operations during Vietnam. It tries to maintain a balance of accessibility to intermediate wargamers and enough detail to give reasonable results. HPS has also updated the engine several times since the release and tied those updates into WOTME. There are few, if any, games like it.

Just some of my own thoughts.

Thanks.

[old_pop2000]

And the overall color of SE Asia from the air is green, not Libya tan. :) Having flown over SE Asia a couple of times, that was something that really impressed me: how beautiful it was.

If a company is going to charge $49.95 for a game [and not even provide a demo], for the map to look like it was drawn by a 7-year-old is pretty disappointing. When I play a wargame, I want to immerse myself in the event being gamed or simulated. I'm not an eye-candy guy, but some things are pretty basic and, to me, a matter of common sense. If I were developing a naval game, I certainly would not make the map white. If I were developing a Middle East air war game, I would not make the map of the terrain sky blue.
...

BTW, if you examine the CIA Vietnam and Indochina maps, the shaded reliefs, administrative and political maps along with the airfield maps are.... you guessed it, Libyan tan. The only maps that are green and other colors are the land utilization and vegetation maps. The airfield map of 1970 looks remarkable like the map in WOV, with some detail removed. Just thought you might like to know. :D

[djcyclone]

Have you tried (Hearts of Valor, South Pacific)?

This Game allows you to control the U.S., or Japanese Navy and Ground Forces for Guadacanal, Coral Sea, and many more.

This sounds like what you are looking for, because you have Subs and you order them to certain areas and see if they catch anything.

You also have to worry about suplies, and how much training you are ordering your planes to do. You do not have to do anything Historicaly, but can just go with what you want to do, and see how it works out.

The Game has a campaign mode where it assumes that no other battles have taken place, and that the entire War effort is focused in the South Pacific. So you get all of the Battle ships, and all of the Cariers.

Look it up, and the NWS Store might have it also.

[Christian Schwietzke]

Never heard of Hearts of Valor.


Are you sure you haven´t dreamed this up?

[clacton2]

Never heard of Hearts of Valor.

Are you sure you haven´t dreamed this up?


Does he mean: Uncommon Valor?, might be confused with Hearts of Iron?:)

[djcyclone]

Does he mean: Uncommon Valor?, might be confused with Hearts of Iron?:)


Yes Uncommon Valor sounds right. It has been a number of years since I played it. Sorry about that.

[Warship NWS]

We have Uncommon Valor on our store - basically the baby brother of WITP.

[old_pop2000]

And the overall color of SE Asia from the air is green, not Libya tan. :) Having flown over SE Asia a couple of times, that was something that really impressed me: how beautiful it was.

.........

Okkkk, here is a link to the HPS website page that has a user created replacement map at the bottom. Yes, it is green.

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/updates/up_ModernAirPower/up_ModAirPow.html

With My Compliments