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View Full Version : Finished my first game...complete victory...



bruticus
05-28-2009, 07:17 PM
Total game time was 9/1939 to ~9/1942, but it seemed like the victory really occured during the last 6 months of playing.

Playing USN vs IT in the Med, in the first year's annual report, FDR slapped my wrist for "very poor performance." During this first year the action consisted mainly of sporadic surface engagements. I saw several IT battle (both surface and carrier) groups that looked competent, but rarely engaged in any meaningful action. Both sides lost a few cruisers and ~dozen escorts and merchies. Air action was negligible; in fact, my air assets (land and naval) managed only a handful of missions, while IT land-based aircraft took a few swipes at my ships (but never attacked my bases) and I saw no evidence of carrier-based aircraft.

In the second year annual report, I was told "you have performed capably. We have confidence in your abilities." I was finally receiving allotments of competent, effective a/c (TBM1, SBD-6, and the Hellcat even appeared on my list of "possible to produce" types)

In this year, my subs took a heavy toll of IT shipping for almost no loss. Similarly, I started seeing IT carriers and merchies waltzing around nearly unescorted, and several times an IT surface fleet sailed straight at my AdvPort, ignoring damage from surface, sub, and aerial engagements alike, and just kept going straight until every ship had been sunk or crippled.

At the start of 1942 I decided to invade Cagliari as the first step to taking Palermo. I loaded up 10K amphib troops and full supplies, attached the Iowa and every surface asset available...and it was a pushover. Cagliari was UNdefended! I captured 33 RPs, 10 fighters (which appeared, next turn, ready for my use!) and a bunch of ships (which were listed as captured but never appeared as available for my use). The following turn I ordered all the infantry back onto the ships, returned them to Gibraltar, and (using MUCH smaller convoy groups over the space of several weeks) replaced them with a handful of infantry.

In the following couple months, enemy activity virtually stopped. The IT player didn't even attempt to hurt the ships involved in shuffling my troops around.

A couple months after that, I was informed that I'd achieved a stunning victory over the enemy and my efforts were greatly rewarded.

I won, but it felt kind of hollow. Throughout the game, I noticed that the Italian commander built escorts, subs, and merchies almost to the exclusion of CAs or larger. He built 3 or 4 escort carriers and maybe 10 CA/CL, but no more of them and nothing bigger. In the final months, he was up to "Ship Class mid-20s" on a couple types of escorts, and I sank dozens of them just in the months of 1942. A mob would appear somewhere in the Med, heading one way or another on missions I could not discern, and I'd sally out with the Iowa and a bunch of cruisers and sink 70-100% of them. The final battle was often
"Iowa + 5 CA/CL + 20 DD" vs "2 DD."

It seems like the AI commander never cancels a fleet's original mission regardless of losses, choosing instead to split off damaged ships but keep the original group going, regardless of losses suffered, right to the last ship. I'd fight a fleet that started as 4-6 cruisers and appropriate escorts, sink or cripple a few ships, sink a few of the survivors a few hours or days later, and so on, while the enemy fleet seemed to just wander around with no instinct for self preservation.

The majority of damage I suffered in surface battle was inflicted by the VV which, for almost the entire war, sailed around unaccompanied and unescorted, inflicting serious damage on any of my fleets that did not include the Iowa or at least 4 cruisers. Even fleets consisting of 2 or 3 CAs and 15 destroyers were helpless against this one ship. It seemed particularly adept at catching groups of DEs on minelaying missions and sinking every one of them, regardless of the time of the battle or the initial battle range. Often it fought at night at ranges starting at 10K yards, yet my DE/DDs inevitable chose to run straight away and get annihilated by gunfire rather than closer for a torpedo attack. My subs torpedoed it multiple times (4 times in one action alone for "moderate damage), and it would reappear (again, solo) 1-2 months later.

DjB

tony_glazebrook
05-28-2009, 11:38 PM
Total game time was 9/1939 to ~9/1942, but it seemed like the victory really occured during the last 6 months of playing.

Playing USN vs IT in the Med, in the first year's annual report, FDR slapped my wrist for "very poor performance." During this first year the action consisted mainly of sporadic surface engagements. I saw several IT battle (both surface and carrier) groups that looked competent, but rarely engaged in any meaningful action. Both sides lost a few cruisers and ~dozen escorts and merchies. Air action was negligible; in fact, my air assets (land and naval) managed only a handful of missions, while IT land-based aircraft took a few swipes at my ships (but never attacked my bases) and I saw no evidence of carrier-based aircraft.

In the second year annual report, I was told "you have performed capably. We have confidence in your abilities." I was finally receiving allotments of competent, effective a/c (TBM1, SBD-6, and the Hellcat even appeared on my list of "possible to produce" types)

In this year, my subs took a heavy toll of IT shipping for almost no loss. Similarly, I started seeing IT carriers and merchies waltzing around nearly unescorted, and several times an IT surface fleet sailed straight at my AdvPort, ignoring damage from surface, sub, and aerial engagements alike, and just kept going straight until every ship had been sunk or crippled.

At the start of 1942 I decided to invade Cagliari as the first step to taking Palermo. I loaded up 10K amphib troops and full supplies, attached the Iowa and every surface asset available...and it was a pushover. Cagliari was UNdefended! I captured 33 RPs, 10 fighters (which appeared, next turn, ready for my use!) and a bunch of ships (which were listed as captured but never appeared as available for my use). The following turn I ordered all the infantry back onto the ships, returned them to Gibraltar, and (using MUCH smaller convoy groups over the space of several weeks) replaced them with a handful of infantry.

In the following couple months, enemy activity virtually stopped. The IT player didn't even attempt to hurt the ships involved in shuffling my troops around.

A couple months after that, I was informed that I'd achieved a stunning victory over the enemy and my efforts were greatly rewarded.

I won, but it felt kind of hollow. Throughout the game, I noticed that the Italian commander built escorts, subs, and merchies almost to the exclusion of CAs or larger. He built 3 or 4 escort carriers and maybe 10 CA/CL, but no more of them and nothing bigger. In the final months, he was up to "Ship Class mid-20s" on a couple types of escorts, and I sank dozens of them just in the months of 1942. A mob would appear somewhere in the Med, heading one way or another on missions I could not discern, and I'd sally out with the Iowa and a bunch of cruisers and sink 70-100% of them. The final battle was often
"Iowa + 5 CA/CL + 20 DD" vs "2 DD."

It seems like the AI commander never cancels a fleet's original mission regardless of losses, choosing instead to split off damaged ships but keep the original group going, regardless of losses suffered, right to the last ship. I'd fight a fleet that started as 4-6 cruisers and appropriate escorts, sink or cripple a few ships, sink a few of the survivors a few hours or days later, and so on, while the enemy fleet seemed to just wander around with no instinct for self preservation.

The majority of damage I suffered in surface battle was inflicted by the VV which, for almost the entire war, sailed around unaccompanied and unescorted, inflicting serious damage on any of my fleets that did not include the Iowa or at least 4 cruisers. Even fleets consisting of 2 or 3 CAs and 15 destroyers were helpless against this one ship. It seemed particularly adept at catching groups of DEs on minelaying missions and sinking every one of them, regardless of the time of the battle or the initial battle range. Often it fought at night at ranges starting at 10K yards, yet my DE/DDs inevitable chose to run straight away and get annihilated by gunfire rather than closer for a torpedo attack. My subs torpedoed it multiple times (4 times in one action alone for "moderate damage), and it would reappear (again, solo) 1-2 months later.

DjB

DjB - Very interesting results and thanks for playing out a campaign to the end.

As it was a player-created one, there is much I don't know, eg what ports were involved, what the strategy settings were, how big the resources were, what troops were created initially and where, what the various EMI/DMI and counterpart industry settings were that affect how trade convoys get formed by the AI, etc. In short, I can't comment on the 'balance' of this campaign. I also don't know whether you left the Italian side all to the AI, or ocasionally intervened eg to buld certain ships, create certain missions or, during calculation, sometimes took the Italian side and intervened.

To take just on example - if Cagliari was given no garrison troops at campaign creation, it can only get them there if the Italian AI would deteremine that a troop transport mission there was of sufficient priority given everything else, and then was able to get them there.

The AI works the same for both sides, eg in terms of cancelling missions due to ship losses or damage. I can't comment more without having the files to play through.

Some general comments though if I may:
1. The upcoming update with improvements to ac production has potentially a big effect on all campaigns, but perhaps especially the IT side in the Med, given the importance of their land-based air.
2. Performance of subs is affected among other things by sub technology and doctrine - which are set during campaign creation but can be improved through investment. The Italians have a low level of both by default
3. The repair rates for damaged ships (eg the VV) is something I will urgently look at - this has been commented on before.
4. The mechanics for the calculation of surface batles are pretty sophisticated and also pretty transparent in that you can replay the entire battle shell by shell. We are always happy to take feedback on results that suggest some tweaking is needed, but we need specific information or better still, the actual battle file. (There is a way to send me battle files but I need to set up a post on how to do this)

Once again DjB, thanks for taking the time to give this feedback.

bruticus
05-29-2009, 12:43 AM
When I created the scenario, I selected USN and IT, in the Med. I didn't alter any of the "game start" settings. I wasn't aware that I could actually "mind-control" the IT side until I accidentally selected them and wondered why all my ships had funny-spelled names!

Next time I find e.g. a surface battle that seems wonky (e.g. a cruiser/DD force intercepts capital ships at night and close range, and doesn't attempt a torpedo blitz) I'll take a screenie of the DOS-window code compilation.

DjB

Warship NWS
05-29-2009, 01:13 AM
Actually, its not a DOS window.. its a Java script text window. ;)

tony_glazebrook
06-02-2009, 12:22 AM
When I created the scenario, I selected USN and IT, in the Med. I didn't alter any of the "game start" settings. I wasn't aware that I could actually "mind-control" the IT side until I accidentally selected them and wondered why all my ships had funny-spelled names!

Next time I find e.g. a surface battle that seems wonky (e.g. a cruiser/DD force intercepts capital ships at night and close range, and doesn't attempt a torpedo blitz) I'll take a screenie of the DOS-window code compilation.

DjB

DjB - I need to explain something that the help files don't perhaps make clear enough - when you create your own campaign, the values for port infratstructure, RMI etc all start at default levels. Just creating a new campaign with the USN and IT in the Med will not recreate the Med1 boxed campaign. In the Med1 campaign , the resource levels, infrastructure values, RMI etc values all were set with specific values to create an interesting campaign with a more or less historical start point.

In the campaign you created, to take just one example, I suspect that many ports ended up with a default low level of airfield infrastructure - to low to usefully run many aircraft - which may be one reason for the results you got.

Anyway, my point is that creating your own campaigns requires a bit of effort. This is one reason why I have pledged to allow for campaign saves while creating a campaign - the process is something that can take a bit of time to do properly. This enhancement won't be in the forthcoming update; but is a priority for the update after that.